NYC: How long to dry Old Putnam / Van Cortlandt Park after rain?
#51
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I went as far as Ardsley today. No standing water, some remnants of mud puddles, all easily gotten around. I enjoyed it a lot!
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1987 Mercian Pro, 1985 Shogun 500, 197? Falcon San Remo, 1972 Peugeot PX-10, 1972 Schwinn Paramount P13-9, 1971 Peugeot PX-10, 1971 Raleigh International, 1970 Raleigh Professional Mark I
Curator/Team Mechanic: 2016 Dawes Streetfighter, 1984 Lotus Eclair, 1975 Motobecane Jubile Mixte, 1974 Raleigh Sports, 1973 Free Spirit Ted Williams, 1972 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Philips Sport
#52
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The long-argued Broadway bike lane beside Van Cortlandt park seems to now be a freshly painted fact on the ground from 4 blocks north of the subway at 246th to the Yonkers line:
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2018/06/...ortlandt-park/
If I were returning down the SCT either late enough that I didn't want to negotiate the roots and mud under a headlamp, or after facing enough puddles northbound that I'd rather not deal with it again, what's the best way to get from the SCT over to Broadway? Clearly you start by exiting at Alan Shepard Place, and then crossing the parkway on McLean's overpass, but then what?
Say as close to the edge of the park on Caryl Ave?
Follow McLean's wanderings and cut across on Lawrence or Radford?
Something else?
Also, while I'd be less likely to do it at the start of a ride, what about going to the SCT? Caryl seems to become one-way westbound.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2018/06/...ortlandt-park/
If I were returning down the SCT either late enough that I didn't want to negotiate the roots and mud under a headlamp, or after facing enough puddles northbound that I'd rather not deal with it again, what's the best way to get from the SCT over to Broadway? Clearly you start by exiting at Alan Shepard Place, and then crossing the parkway on McLean's overpass, but then what?
Say as close to the edge of the park on Caryl Ave?
Follow McLean's wanderings and cut across on Lawrence or Radford?
Something else?
Also, while I'd be less likely to do it at the start of a ride, what about going to the SCT? Caryl seems to become one-way westbound.
#53
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Caryl Ave will twist around and get you there but you're going to hit some nasty hills. Radford is straight and flat but has bad traffic (it's normally the way i go) I forgot about Lawrence till recently and have been meaning to check it out, might only be a one way street.
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It really drives home how railroad routes are chosen to be level, when you realize there's a mountain northeast of the park that's completely bypassed by taking the Old Put.
Returning late from a long ride decided to try getting over to the new Broadway lane instead of dealing with the dirt portion in the dark. Ended up having to walk all of the connection up and down the hills on Caryl, then finally rode the broadway lane.
The Broadway lane mostly works, but at least if I can find a single-use insect repellant packet to cary, in the future I'd probably choose even walking all of the putnam trail on through the park on foot over the detour to Broadway. And as the trip north in the morning showed, it was a fairly dry and rideable day on the Old Put at that.
Last edited by UniChris; 07-11-18 at 09:02 AM.
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Anyone heard anything recent on Old Putnam Trail Paving?
Last I'd heard in the fall this was the year, which although it will take something unique from the character could finally mean rides can be planned based on the day's weather rather than the preceding week's.
But it also sounded like the work would close it for months and months. So if it's going to happen, might have to accelerate getting back into summer distance condition beforehand...
Last I'd heard in the fall this was the year, which although it will take something unique from the character could finally mean rides can be planned based on the day's weather rather than the preceding week's.
But it also sounded like the work would close it for months and months. So if it's going to happen, might have to accelerate getting back into summer distance condition beforehand...
#56
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Local Newspaper claimed they were going to start
https://riverdalepress.com/stories/p...am-trail,67508
But I think the groups that advocate against are still pushing and delaying it.
Once they start I think we will lose it for a year before they finish.
Here's what the Parks Dept says
https://www.nycgovparks.org/planning...X-nfVHclrbgliU
Project Update: The project has been awarded to a contractor and has been sent to the Comptroller’s Office for registration.
https://riverdalepress.com/stories/p...am-trail,67508
But I think the groups that advocate against are still pushing and delaying it.
Once they start I think we will lose it for a year before they finish.
Here's what the Parks Dept says
https://www.nycgovparks.org/planning...X-nfVHclrbgliU
Project Update: The project has been awarded to a contractor and has been sent to the Comptroller’s Office for registration.
Last edited by Jarrettsin; 03-17-19 at 05:37 AM.
#57
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Parks website was updated 4/19 to say Putnam Trail project starts August '19 and ends August '20. So we still get it this summer, but then probably won't get it back by next, which is unfortunate timing as hopefully the now in progress North County Trail repaving will be done by then.
It is encouraging that things seem to be happening statewide on the various Empire Trail pieces, but I'm guessing the goal of completion by the end of 2020 will be many pieces short.
If it doesn't rain on Friday may need to get up there and ride Van Cortlandt to Briarcliff and back...
It is encouraging that things seem to be happening statewide on the various Empire Trail pieces, but I'm guessing the goal of completion by the end of 2020 will be many pieces short.
If it doesn't rain on Friday may need to get up there and ride Van Cortlandt to Briarcliff and back...
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Something else I stumbled on recently is that the city and CSX are fighting about the value of the remaining piece of the Putnam Line from Van Cortland down to 230th street.
The idea is that this could extend the trail, and also potential "daylight" Tibbets brook and keep it out of the combined sewer system.
One interesting proposal is at https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...Putnam-web.pdf which would basically extend the path down to the Marble Hill Target, and build some park there and an interface to a theoretical riverfront path in the Bronx.
While they don't mention it, seems like that could connect to the Broadway bridge, too.
The idea is that this could extend the trail, and also potential "daylight" Tibbets brook and keep it out of the combined sewer system.
One interesting proposal is at https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...Putnam-web.pdf which would basically extend the path down to the Marble Hill Target, and build some park there and an interface to a theoretical riverfront path in the Bronx.
While they don't mention it, seems like that could connect to the Broadway bridge, too.
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#61
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I first read about it when I found out that they were planning on paving the Van Cortlandt section, it was always the big picture to extend down.
But I'm confused in the PDF you posted the proposal part of the picture say it would Intersects with the Harlem River Greenway.
The Harlem River Greenway is on the other side of the river and starts at the Intersection of Dyckmen St & 10th Ave where the Harlem River Drive starts.
Or am I missing something?
But I'm confused in the PDF you posted the proposal part of the picture say it would Intersects with the Harlem River Greenway.
The Harlem River Greenway is on the other side of the river and starts at the Intersection of Dyckmen St & 10th Ave where the Harlem River Drive starts.
Or am I missing something?
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@Chris
Not sure you’ve every explored east from VCP, but there’s a whole bunch of paths and greenways extending east from the VCP golf course lot. I followed Mosholu Parkway, around the north side of the Botanical Gardens, then east on the north side of the Pelham Parkway. There’s even a link over to City Island and north to Orchard Beach. A fun area to explore.
Just FYI
Not sure you’ve every explored east from VCP, but there’s a whole bunch of paths and greenways extending east from the VCP golf course lot. I followed Mosholu Parkway, around the north side of the Botanical Gardens, then east on the north side of the Pelham Parkway. There’s even a link over to City Island and north to Orchard Beach. A fun area to explore.
Just FYI
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Not sure you’ve every explored east from VCP, but there’s a whole bunch of paths and greenways extending east from the VCP golf course lot. I followed Mosholu Parkway, around the north side of the Botanical Gardens, then east on the north side of the Pelham Parkway. There’s even a link over to City Island and north to Orchard Beach. A fun area to explore.
Sometime I probably should try further east; the trap I keep falling into is that I need most of a week to recover from a serious ride, and by the time I've ridden a train for an hour to get up there, I want to get in my miles for the week and not just stop and go like the lower greenway that I can ride to from home. But I might take the smaller 29er up there sometime, it's a lot easier to get on in stop and go, and if there's a stretch where the pavement is perfect (like the Duchess trail was) I can put it in 1.55x high gear and take off; it's just that on bumpy stuff (like the SCT north of Grey Oaks) I have to ride it slowly in 1:1 gear as it doesn't have the stability of the bigger 36 inch wheel...
What would be fun would be being able to go up the east river and cut over to some of the proposed new path and get to VCP without needing a train, but that seems still a few years out at best...
Last edited by UniChris; 04-24-19 at 11:14 PM.
#64
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I found the same thing when searching on that. I think they're referring to another "someday" path on the Bronx side of the river.
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Again when I read it I thought why not extend even further down. There is a "corridor" because the Metro North makes it down. You could go as far down as, and kind of connect up with the Willis Ave Bridge. There are a couple of squeeze points that would have to be worked out but mostly there is room. Would pass though a bunch of parks too.
#66
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The trains turn and cross right before the Third Ave bridge and you lose your corridor. 138th street is a "painted" bike lane for what it worth and that kind of gets you over to the the Bronx connector. That's what they call that little bridge over the Kill. Randall Island is nice to ride around. There is a bridge that crosses to the East River Greenway or you can take the RFK bridge to Queens.
Crossing the Willis puts you able to connect up to the Bike lanes on 1st & 2nd ave. So if the bring it down to that area lost of connectors.
Crossing the Willis puts you able to connect up to the Bike lanes on 1st & 2nd ave. So if the bring it down to that area lost of connectors.
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Did this last week without enough "drying time" and had to walk some stretches, but the more that I think about it, so what?
The premise of the question was mistaken. One can get through - even on a bad day half of it is rideable and the whole thing its only about a twenty minute *walk* so that is not a reason to avoid the Westchester trails if the day itself is nice.
That said, muddy on the way up is a nice incentive to push on to Brewster, or consider a different return such as past Tarrytown Lakes and down the hill to the train there.
The premise of the question was mistaken. One can get through - even on a bad day half of it is rideable and the whole thing its only about a twenty minute *walk* so that is not a reason to avoid the Westchester trails if the day itself is nice.
That said, muddy on the way up is a nice incentive to push on to Brewster, or consider a different return such as past Tarrytown Lakes and down the hill to the train there.
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What about the OCA route, East of Mosholu Parkway? NYCC OCA route goes this way: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/25327095 Then there is a short stretch on Yonkers Avenue, and one can walk up the stairs back to SCT.
Is cycling allowed there? Google maps and Openstreetmaps mark it as a bike trail. If it is in a bad condition it may be a bad idea to bike there and erode the trail even more -- anyway, the main trail is getting paved, so we can wait for it to happen.
Is cycling allowed there? Google maps and Openstreetmaps mark it as a bike trail. If it is in a bad condition it may be a bad idea to bike there and erode the trail even more -- anyway, the main trail is getting paved, so we can wait for it to happen.
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What about the OCA route, East of Mosholu Parkway? NYCC OCA route goes this way: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/25327095 Then there is a short stretch on Yonkers Avenue, and one can walk up the stairs back to SCT.
Is cycling allowed there? Google maps and Openstreetmaps mark it as a bike trail. If it is in a bad condition it may be a bad idea to bike there and erode the trail even more -- anyway, the main trail is getting paved, so we can wait for it to happen.
Is cycling allowed there? Google maps and Openstreetmaps mark it as a bike trail. If it is in a bad condition it may be a bad idea to bike there and erode the trail even more -- anyway, the main trail is getting paved, so we can wait for it to happen.
I usually go in from Mosholu along what is technically the OCA anyway, what I should do sometime when I get up there with time to spare for the planned ride (as if that will ever happen) is go up the switchbacks at the corkscrew and try following the OCA route with the thought of turning around and going back to the golf house and the Old Put if it's not working for me.
If I were to do that I'd be almost as tempted to take Mclean from the crossing and get on the SCT at Alan Shephard place (I've kind of been enjoying working on my times up that first climb to Mile Square Rd). But taking it up to Yonkers Ave is an option too.
Overall though I assume if this were a good route people in a trailway (vs gravel) frame of mind would use it when the Put is muddy, but what I mostly hear about are people who prefer to go up Broadway west of the park.
Only a few folks on Strava seem to get into the upper teens for it, which I think says something: https://www.strava.com/segments/11481428
in comparison to the Old Put on dry days: https://www.strava.com/segments/1300895
(Not that I'm looking to go fast; but when the top times for a segment are slow, there tends to be a reason - I sometimes look at the Old Put times with the "this week"filter when its been wet to guess how much people are having to bypass on foot)
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I usually go in from Mosholu along what is technically the OCA anyway, what I should do sometime when I get up there with time to spare for the planned ride (as if that will ever happen) is go up the switchbacks at the corkscrew and try following the OCA route with the thought of turning around and going back to the golf house and the Old Put if it's not working for me.
Also, the route is hilly compared to the Old Put. According to Google maps the grades in the park and on McLean/Alan Shephard are about 4% (still not too bad compared to >10% on Caryl Ave ) compared to <2% on the SCT. Maybe this is why people avoid it.
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Will try it and report back.
Also, the route is hilly compared to the Old Put. According to Google maps the grades in the park and on McLean/Alan Shephard are about 4% (still not too bad compared to >10% on Caryl Ave ) compared to <2% on the SCT. Maybe this is why people avoid it.
Also, the route is hilly compared to the Old Put. According to Google maps the grades in the park and on McLean/Alan Shephard are about 4% (still not too bad compared to >10% on Caryl Ave ) compared to <2% on the SCT. Maybe this is why people avoid it.
I'm also suspecting that the hole in the fence visible from the Put near the end of the northernmost golf green may connect to something that connects to the OCA. And that there may be a semi-official way to get to the end of Sedgewick Ave. Those railroad surveyors did an impressive job of finding the flat route between the hills, it's just the Put is a little low through the park itself. The OCA seems to be skirting the side of a hill to the east (the one 87 is higher up on), while Caryl seems to unfortunately tangle with the south end of a ridge that separates the Put ROW from Broadway. Maybe it's possible to follow the OCA on the ridge towards the north end of the park then dip down to the Put and exit it to the start of the SCT.
Edit: Strava heatmap shows the OCA through the park and norther connection to the Put fairly well, especially in "all" mode to include those on foot. What's a bit odd is the number of people "biking" on Mosholu parkway - or leaving the app running after they get in a car? Among visible parkways its quite unique in heat index specifically for cycling - or is there some closed roads event that uses it?
Further research suggests there's about 100 feet of climbing in the first half mile in the park (some of which may be the switchback) and then it basically follows a contour up to Yonkers ave. Conversely, the Put stays low through the park then spreads the same climb over the mile and half from the city line to Yonkers Ave. So diverting back to the Put before there would mean doing the climb twice, conversely the segment called "Watch the Rocks" is alongside the east edge of Tibbets Park.
Finally, it appears possible to skip Yonkers Ave by cutting west through the top of Tibbets Park from about the pumphouse along the southern edge of the tennis courts and then up a short steep hill on one of the obvious SCT and park path intersections.
Last edited by UniChris; 05-21-19 at 09:27 PM.
#72
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Unless Yonkers has cleaned up its act (and the trail), the only reason to bike the OCA in Tibbetts Brook Park is for bragging rights. It's been a few years since I've done it. Once was more than enough. This isn't an example of benign neglect; it's active neglect: lots of broken glass and other trash. If you want to check it out with minimal unpleasantness, I suggest riding southbound on Midland Av. Between the Cross County Pkwy and McLean Av, the OCA is clearly visible immediately to the west of Midland. Between McLean Av and the Westchester - Bronx border, the OCA is essentially front and back yards, not unlike a few other OCA segments in Yonkers and Tarrytown. Within Van Cortlandt Park, in my experience, the OCA is lightly traveled. Officially, bicycles are prohibited, but there's a presence of motor-powered ATVs. My limited experience: this segment of the OCA can be muddy with no particularly scenic rewards. Where the Deegan crosses Mosholu Pkwy, there's a pedpath on the west side of the bridge with stairs south of the bridge. The pedpath and stairs were in craptacularly poor condition, then closed for repairs. I don't know the current status. Alternatively, I've bushwhacked my way north from where the OCA, Mosholu Pkwy, and the Deegan meet. Adjacent to Mosholu Pkwy and heading north, there was actually a paved path. Don't get your hopes up. Adjacent to the Deegan, the pavement stops, but a rudimentary path continues. Sort of. "Bushwhack" is probably accurate. I connected to the extension of Central Park Av / Jerome Av which bridges the Deegan. Worth adding: in addition to other delights, there's probably a real risk of exposure to Lyme disease along this route.
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Where the Deegan crosses Mosholu Pkwy, there's a pedpath on the west side of the bridge with stairs south of the bridge. The pedpath and stairs were in craptacularly poor condition, then closed for repairs. I don't know the current status. Alternatively, I've bushwhacked my way north from where the OCA, Mosholu Pkwy, and the Deegan meet. Adjacent to Mosholu Pkwy and heading north, there was actually a paved path. Don't get your hopes up. Adjacent to the Deegan, the pavement stops, but a rudimentary path continues.
It's kind of funny to think how that's all about a hundred yards from the rest area where I used to get coffee driving back into the city a decade ago... But it's not quite fair to call that windshield perspective, catching a ride back in I realized you get a far better sense of southern Yonkers from the Deegan than from the tree-lined Put winding its way between the hills.
Last edited by UniChris; 05-21-19 at 10:26 PM.
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Was running late yesterday so didn't explore the VCP OCA section on the way up, but the Put was pretty muddy necessitating a lot of walking. Coming back I realized I'd hit the city line exactly at sunset, and expecting it to get darker faster than it actually did decided to avoid going back that way. Really considered putting on my bright headlight and trail bar light and trying the OCA either from the Mclean intersection or the connector to the put just inside the park that I identified on the way up, but seeing it for a the first time in the dark just seemed a little too much.
Instead hiked over the hills on Caryl, 2nd time I've done that on a late return and both severely regretted. Even though riding the broadway lane down was kind of fun, I should have just walked the put. Maybe next time I'll bring bug spray and be more willing to do so, I find it's not really needed when moving, but at walking pace...
Instead hiked over the hills on Caryl, 2nd time I've done that on a late return and both severely regretted. Even though riding the broadway lane down was kind of fun, I should have just walked the put. Maybe next time I'll bring bug spray and be more willing to do so, I find it's not really needed when moving, but at walking pace...
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VCP Paths
There is an alternative route to the main Putnam trail. If you head along the Golf Course Club house and then up bearing right under the overpass and take a hard left at the top of the turn you will end up riding along the highway (separated on the other side of a wall) for about two hundred meters and then it will head into the park. It’s part of the OCA and it does not get as wet. It’s got some steps and rocks, but not the mud. It’s a little lonely, but very pretty. You can follow the trail either out of the park and onto the OCA or it will cut back into the Putnam trail.