balto charlie

Reading many forums, blogs, emails etc... about this law I kinda think lawyers are going to have a field day with it if police try to enforce. Some post were breaking down the laws into road/highway etc... The law was meant to gives us more room on the road, period!! Is this law enforceable, I agree with NR as I think not. We might need to ride with video cameras to adequately enforce it.
@ GB: Haven't noticed yet any improvement. I will have more info in the coming weeks. My most difficult road is Springfield with quite a few blind rises and curves. I get passed on these at an uncomfortable distance at times. I always get passed on these when the driver is at great risk in the other lane. One of these just happened on Monday. He had to return (sooner than I wanted) back into my lane. One of these days something is going to happen with oncoming traffic and the passing drivers. I gotta say I usually get respect from most drivers who give me way more than 3 feet.
Side note: there is very little education in MD drivers ed courses towards cyclist. I wonder if this law will be explained to the students. It should be as well as basic ways of dealing with us on the road.

Philly bike expo: looks great, you going to ride there:-)

NoRacer

Yes, I think they're being more careful, overall, but there's still the butt-holes out there, too--maybe 1 in 100.

maxine

I don't think the law is literally enforceable -- as in, a cop is going to say, as he's driving down the road, "Hmmm, that guy is only two feet away from that biker. I'm going to pull him over and give him a ticket." At best, what it might do is, if you get hit, there's now something specific that can be thrown at the driver (he had to have violated your three feet.)

I haven't commuted this week (lots of oddities about my work schedule at the moment), so I can't say anything about the drivers in my area. I've been wondering, though . . .

I had an "encounter" about a month ago as I was riding home from work. I had turned left onto WB&A Road from Donaldson. WB&A at that point is narrow, two lanes, and with zero shoulder. At the first stop sign, which is maybe 200 yards (if that?) from the light, I turn right, and into the tiny streets of my neighborhood. I have learned that drivers on this stretch will often squeeze uncomfortably close to me in passing so that they don't have to go too far over the double yellow line. Consequently, I ride a little further over to the left that I might otherwise, making it clear that if they want to pass me, they're going to have to commit to going almost entirely into the other lane. And they do -- I rarely get "squeezed" there anymore.

(I've never understood that mentality, by the way . . . as soon as you stick your nose across that double yellow, you're risking a collision. So whether you put just 1/3 of your car, or your whole car, across the line, it doesn't much matter in the end.)

Anyway. I hear (and see in my mirror) a pickup truck approaching. I do some calculating, and I realize he's going to catch me shortly before I get to the stop sign, and there's oncoming traffic, so he's going to have to wait a minute. (Not literally a WHOLE minute, of course!) He's staying back, though, no trouble there. But when he pulls over to pass me, he leans over and yells through his open passenger window "Why didn't you move over out of the way?!!" For some reason, it ticked me off. I was only seconds behind him to the stop sign, and when I saw him turn into my neighborhood, on impulse I followed him.

I must have been out of my mind. I am normally the least confontational of people. But I followed him to his house, where he stopped (but didn't get out of the truck) to get mail out of his box. I was standing alongside the truck, a little forward of his passenger window, patiently waiting. He knew I was there, but refused to look at me. (Yah, I'm *so* intimidating, right??? ) When he wouldn't acknowledge my presence, I actually got off my bike and walked around to his side of the truck. (I still can't believe I did this!)

I was very nice and polite. "Excuse me, sir, I live in this neighborhood, and I don't like having any bad situations with my neighbors, so I just want you to know, I really wasn't just trying to annoy you back there on the road." And he immediately launched into a tirade: "Why wouldn't you move?? I've never seen anyone ride like that, I see cyclists going up to the BWI trail all the time, they don't do that!" I said "Well, the road isn't wide enough right there for both of us to fit, so . . . " and he interrupted "Well, you shouldn't be on it then!" And I got pissed -- still not yelling, but rather firmly "I have as much right under Maryland law to that road as a car does." And he interrupted with the classic "Oh, you have tags on that thing?" "That doesn't matter." "Yeah, right."

And then he started in again, "I ride a bike all the time" (which I seriously doubted) "up to the trail, and I never see anybody doing that! That's where you're going, right, to the trail?" (That last delivered in a really snotty tone.) I almost lost it then, and fired right back (very stiff, and slowly, but still no yelling ) "No . . . I . . .am . . . not. I LIVE here. I'm on my way home FROM WORK." (pointing to my garment-bag pannier.)

He looked just minorly sheepish then, I gave up and pulled away, he went down his driveway. I haven't seen him again, but I've been wondering what he thinks of the new law, and hoping he didn't read that stupid Baltimore Sun summary.

After he left, and I rode off, I realized (I don't normally ride down that street) that his is that weird, compound-like place that's surrounded by fencing and trees and warning signs. It's a big property, and on the part that faces WB&A Road (north of that stop sign) there's a HUGE, permanent (I'm talkin' like mounted on 4x8's ) elaborately painted "Sarah Palin 2012" sign. It's been there for at least the nearly two years that I've lived there.

Just sayin'. Actually, now that I think of it, I guess I don't have to worry about him having read that Sun article; a true devotee of Ms. Palin wouldn't have any truck with that Communist rag, anyway.

veloellen

Maxine, are you freaking crazy???? Approach some dude in a pick up truck? I'll say it again, are you freaking crazy? But I understand where you are coming from. We would all like drivers to treat us as vehicles on the road and not honk, give us the finger, yell or buzz us. But in reality more people on the road dislike cyclists than like cyclists - sorry, just my experience. Most think we should be on bike trails and not taking up their precious black top. How many times have we read "4000 lbs vs. 200 lbs - who's going to win there?". Careful Maxie, don't want this dude mowing you down one day (give us his address just in case...)
xxoo, E

maxine

Yeah, probably, especially since he lives in my neighborhood, so I am in fact likely to see him again.

I think if our initial encounter on the road had really made me feel threatened, I probably wouldn't have done it. But it wasn't like that -- he stayed back, and when he did pass me, he wasn't really close. His tone when he yelled out the window at me was extremely rude, but not menacing. And he was a sort of old guy. I think I could have taken him. (If he would have gotten out of the truck, that is -- as it was, he literally would not even look at me. )

I think the reason it so torqued me (and judging from what I read, this wasn't even much of an "incident") is that it's been my experience (unlike your more unfortunate ones!) that the drivers in my local area actually are, on the whole, fairly patient and courteous with me. I've been living and riding here for just under 2 years, and even as busy as these roads are, I can count on one hand the number of times that I've inwardly cussed out any motorist. I don't even get all that many "no malice, but sheer stupidity" episodes.

balto charlie

Dag Max, you're going Dirty Harry on us. Can't blame you tho'. We got to educate 'em, some need a little one-on-one tutoring.

GB: hope all goes well with your rando ride this weekend. I'll be in W.Va. climbing and hopefully seeing some good leaf colors.

NoRacer

A bike rider on Facebook, Jack Mallicote from Dunkirk, MD and I are planning on meeting at Front Royal, VA to ride a portion of Skyline Drive next weekend on the 16th. If anyone from this area is interested in going with me, let me know. We can plan a meeting place. I have room in the back of my truck for another bike and I can comfortably seat one other person (and uncomfortably seat two more in the extended cab portion of the truck, if needed.)

maxine

Hey, I'm camping in Shenandoah National Park that weekend, Friday-Sunday! I'll be down at Big Meadow, though, which is at about MM 51, if I recall correctly. I'll be hiking that Saturday. I've thought about bringing my bike for at least a short ride on Friday afternoon. I've never ridden on Skyline. It seems like it would be nerve-wracking, though; narrow road, no shoulder, often twisty so it's hard for cars to pass you, cars with drivers looking at the pretty leaves instead of at you . . .

maxine

Yeah! Although in my case, it's probably less Dirty Harry and more that woman in the "Police Academy" movies, with the tiny little voice: "Freeze, m*****f*****!!!!!!!!!!"

The Human Car

OK I need some feed back on this, MVA said "According to Young, the bicycle "has all the rights and responsibilities" of any other vehicle. One of those responsibilities, he said, is to avoid impeding traffic."

That sounds like an interpretation of law to me, how about you?

The letter I got back (my emphasis):
Now admittedly MVA does not concern itself with bike law. And the two bolded statements are from law, you can't argue that point. But as far is interpreting the law the MVA does not do that per John. So IMHO that just said yes cyclist can be found guilty of impeding traffic and we are not taking the original interpretation of law back because we don't interpret law.

So they just blew two of my fusses; illogic and not knowing the law.

So should I crank this up to 11? (Or other numeric value?) (I still have two "play nice" options left outside of MVA but I am doubtful one department can correct another.)

Or should I just say who reads the Sun and let it go as at least all future bike safety/law inquires will go to MHSO?

Your feedback will help!

maxine

Well, I'm not sure exactly what you're asking here. Are you saying the driver's education manual needs to be fixed? I think you can't look at that statement in isolation. What's the law say on "impeding traffic" -- is it a real violation (and if so, what are the standards for committing that violation -- evidently the 15 mph thing is just a "guideline"), and is it a violation that is, either explicitly in the law or by logical implication, not applicable to bikes?

Every state agency has several Assistant Attorneys General that represent it. (I used to be one myself! Not for MVA, though.) Maybe one of those folks should be part of the group you're trying to work with. They *are* empowered to tell their clients to stop saying stuff that doesn't comport with what the law says.

Here's a listing of MVA phone numbers, from the State Telephone Directory. There are a couple of AAGs on the list.

https://www.dbm.state.md.us/phonebook...eName&offset=0

The Human Car

Thanks Maxine, I am referring to quote in the SUN by the MVA spokes person.

MVA's argument appears to hing on this bit of law:

So everything a motor vehicle can and cannot do same goes with a cyclists. End of story.


I am asserting this is the law (which it is):

Damn MVA can't quote more then the first line of any bicycle law. If someone gets a ticket for doing less the 15mph below the speed limit don't say I wasn't concerned. Approaching a AAG is something for someone more qualified then myself or anyone here, a negative ruling could be devastating.

@NR Try the unsubscribe link at the bottom of the daily digest.

NoRacer

I just did a search using Justia.com (https://law.justia.com/maryland/codes/gtr.html) for keywords "imped", "impeding", "impede", and it came up with nothing found.

I remember when I was a 16 years old, studying for my drivers license, the manual stated something about "...blocking or impeding the normal flow of traffic." Well, that seems to NOT be part of the code and that maybe MVA is trying to make their manual be a set of requirements which it is not. It should be based on the law as it applies to motor vehicle operators and should be specific to the type of license being sought (Class A, B, C, D, E)

Thanks, Barry, I'll try the unsubscribe--missed that.

NoRacer

Maybe I'll try giving you a call when we get near to Big Meadow though you may be hiking by that time. Cell service is sketchy to non-existent in some places though, so don't hold your breath.

The Human Car

Maryland law can be found here: https://www.michie.com/maryland/lpext....htm&cp=mdcode (Search for "impeding")
(or BaltimoreSpokes.org | links | Law | LexisNexis )

What's being thrown at us is in the Drivers' Manual https://www.mva.maryland.gov/resources/dl-002b.pdf pg 68 paper (pg 36 electronically)

NoRacer

Not applicable - aimed at "motor" vehicles

Not applicable - parking issue.

Not applicable - about indicating devices

The Human Car

[Imitation of the non-public MVA position]That does not mater as the law clearly states: "Every person operating a bicycle or a motor scooter in a public bicycle area has all the rights granted to and is subject to all the duties required of the driver of a vehicle"

[Imitation of the non-public Dresser position]Those cyclists are always thinking mere traffic laws don't apply to them.

I will still assert MVA getting the law wrong will cause us a bunch issues.

I talked with MHSO and they are going to be doing legal research

greaterbrown

LAB gives you three years into the future too. Who knows what Baltimore will look like in 2014. The sharrow lines on the streets may be worn back down to pavement by then.

NoRacer

Saturday's Ride -
Rolly Atkinson Memorial Century by iodaniell at Garmin Connect - Details https://t.co/O0gvFmg


Sunday's Ride -

Point to Point - The Mechanical and The Intercept | Bicycling in Maryland https://bit.ly/d865ti via @TrimbleOutdoors

aquateen

still riding off the high of an amazing cycling weekend. yesterday i took my wife on the "apple fritter" ride i found on the bbc website. sometimes i wonder why more people don't do this stuff...

NoRacer

Sounds like you and your wife had a great time!

veloellen

Isais, I know the 3 women in the pic but not the 4 men - who are they?

The Human Car

Left to right; Andy Clark (LAB), Greg H (MBAC), Nate E (City Bike/ped planner), [Ahh I Have to go look] (BDOT)

NoRacer

Celebrating Baltimore's New Bike Laws & Bike Friendly Status are (L-R) Councilmember Mary Pat Clarke, One Less Car Exec. Dir. Carol Silldorff, League of American Bicyclists Exec. Dir. Andy Clarke, MBAC Chair Greg Hinchliffe, Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, Bike Planner Nate Evans, DOT Director Khalil Zaied (Photo by Mark Dennis)

balto charlie

Hey all: I' m back. Leaves are looking great my hands are shredded. Leaves were not peak but getting there. W. MD is a little slow but W. VA is turning quickly.
@ NR and Max: Leaves should be good for you guys next wknd. Careful on the S. Drive, going to be tons of leaf peepers not paying attention to the roads.
@ Barry: Why not check with Portland. I'm certain those folks have re-written the driving handbook.

Kudos to Balto city and their Bronze award. Shame the former Mayor wasn't there as she should get a lot of thanks for being so pro bike.