Manhattan ticket likelihood
 

I would like to know which parts of Manhattan you are more likely to get ticket, and which part less. When I ride on Park Ave. or 3rd ave. between uptown and downtown, I was the only one that stopped at almost every red light: all the other cyclists rode through red lights, although admittedly in most of the cases they were quite safe to do so (few cars passing across). I was just being careful not to get a ticket, knowing MTA is needing money desperately. But all those cyclists who rode through the red light apparently weren't caught, and this was in the center of Manhattan. So where should we be more careful? (I'm not saying I want to take the risk of an accident, but thinking of the situation when it's perfectly safe to continue through red light, when there is apparently no car around.)

Ticketing is random, unless the cops have set up a team for the purpose. Some NY bike advocacy groups may be charting tickets issued, but I wouldn't base a decision to ride through a red light on location statistics. Ironically, it is easier for a cop to chase you down & ticket you when there's no traffic to worry about and it is safe to run a red.

Don't base your behavior on what other cyclists are doing.

Base it off of what keeps you safe, which means obeying traffic controls.

Sure, sometimes you'll feel like a schmuck for obeying the laws. But the reality is that intersections are where most crashes happen in NYC, and a big chunk of crashes in NYC happen because the cyclist disobeyed traffic controls. Plus, running lights makes cyclists look bad.

Thanks. Agree with both. The only problem for me is, I have my seat adjusted to rather high (too low is not good for the knee, as I read in one of these forums), so when I stop I can't stay seated be ready to go like other cyclists. This means I had to dismount every 2-3 blocks, imagine the pain :(

No offense Vol but in my experience its easy to ride Manhattan without getting ticketed (don't do anything illegal or crazy) but very, very hard to ride without frequent dismounts - no matter what rules your prepared to ignore.

I don't mean to discourage you and I don't know if you have pre-existing knee conditions but if riding with a seat a couple inches lower causes you pain you might want to find a less stop & go environment. Even the parkways are crowded with ped's in the summer. Hypothetical knee problems later in life are statistically alot more healthy than riding through traffic without stopping.

a) such is riding in the big apple.
b) sounds like a good excuse for a +1 bike!

You're doing it right. A properly adjusted seat should not allow you to touch the ground if you're seated.

To minimize the dismount/start up effort:

1. When you stop and step off your bike, position a pedal between a 9 and 10oclock position. Keep your foot on it.

2. When starting off, stand up on the foot that is on the pedal. Let your body weight do the work of pushing down the pedal.

3. If you have a geared bike, downshift to an easier setting so that you're not struggling/wobbling trying to get up to speed.

As far as trying to figure out where the majority of the ticketing is happening, Transportation Alternatives is setting up a crowd-sourced map, and the NYPD has finally released the information:

http://www.crashstat.org/data.html

http://transportationnation.org/2011...d-on-the-rise/

jeebusaurousrex, thank for confirming the seat height and for the tips to mount. I used to set the seat very low, but now find it feels so much better with the higher seat.

reducedfatoreo, thanks for the links. I haven't finished reading the second one, quite interesting.

Anytime. TA in general is a pretty good resource in NYC for bike-related stuff. I really like the way they work their brand of activism, too, by promoting a mutual level of respect amongst cars, cyclists, and bicyclists. Safety for all seems to be their motto, and I can definitely get on board with that!

There's no particular part of the City in which I'd completely stop at a red light. Be safe, have your eyes open, slow down and make sure the way is clear — but don't be cowed into behaving as if you were in a car when you aren't.

The M.T.A. is a god-damned joke, but I don't think they're in charge of traffic-related fines...

I don't think you should offer that with so sure and objective a tone. It's perfectly safe and acceptable for a bicyclist to have his seat adjusted such he may touch part of each foot to the ground when stopped — depending on the bike and the type of riding, I'd say it's even much preferred to a saddle so far off the earth either of the rider's feet always is at least several inches from the ground.

I'll roll with that. Saddle height should be adjusted according to how straight your legs are when the pedal is at it's furthest point. A rider's leg should be able to extend almost fully at a comfortable seated position. However the knees should NOT be completely straight.

For most bicycles on the streets this means, due to bottom bracket heights and seat tube angles and crank lengths, that at best a rider while seated might be able to touch the ground on their tippy-toes. There are exceptions to the rule including choppers, certain cruisers, recumbants, etc.

But even if a bicycle allows one to simultaneously have good leg extension and keep a foot/toe on the ground in the seated position, starting to pedal from a full stop should be easier with the method I described a few posts ago.

I see a lot of new riders with saddles that are much too low, legs half bent at the down stroke, wondering why cycling is so uncomfortable, and potentially giving it up after the summer. I feel that a good, comfortable fit along with a well tuned bicycle and safer roads is key to year to year rider retention, which is always a positive thing.

/thread hijack

I can think of several places just along my commute route.

Prospect Ave
Atlantic Ave
Tillary St
E Houston St
E 23rd St

Agreed. I would add: Be deliberate, predictable, and visible in everything you do. Avoid sudden turns and unexpected maneuvers.

I, too, see that, and I understand and condone it. It's a comfort thing: if you're just beginning to bike, the very notion of hovering so far above the ground that you can't "save" yourself by quickly and firmly flattening both feet upon the pavement surely is intimidating enough to let you dismiss whatever may be said by a more seasoned bicyclist about "proper leg-extension."

Once a rider has become accustomed to balancing and to the very thought of being on a bike, I feel she or he should be encouraged to raise the seat such the legs extend more; a good mode of persuasion might be to ask whether the new cyclist feels fatigue or pain in his or her legs, after riding. Even at the final point, however, I don't buy that the angle that should be left at the knee is anyhow "universal," and this comes not only from the existence of different types of riding (for instance, the person may bike just ~a mile and a half every other weekend, and even that through some quiet suburban streets), but from that of different kinds of riders, with varied physiques, preferences, and areas of comfort.

I'd not stop at red lights, there, either. Yes, I would — as I would, everywhere — slow down and look, but I'd not bring myself to a complete halt if I saw no reason to do so. I think my point simply is, bicyclist should treat red lights differently from how motorists do; it's illogical for them not to. When one is on foot, why does one not absolutely wait for the light to turn green before crossing the street, if no traffic is present? Perhaps a better example, why don't "yield" signs apply to persons on foot?

It's a speed and awareness thing. Versus a pedestrian, a driver wrapped in an enveloping metal box that very comfortably moves at fifteen miles an hour both will need more time to react and will be isolated from her or his environment. Bikes are in the middle, in both these regards, and, as such, it's foolish and lazy to try to cleanly throw them into either category. How can this be addressed? I'm not quite sure, from a legal perspective, but I don't appreciate a climate that encourages bikers to obey legislation meant for drivers, all for the sake of avoiding tickets. (To be clear, I don't intend to direct animosity at any cyclists with this comment.)

As I said, I rarely saw cyclists stopping at red lights. Today as I rode on the Hudson River Greenway, a short distance before me there were 4-6 cyclists all stopped at a crossroad, I was a little curious how come these cyclists were so law-abiding, as it didn't look like they were riding together. As I approached, AHA, no wonder, there was a policeman controlling the area and had them stop there.

See, there is a reason when more than 1 cyclist stopped at red light ;)

Some other reasons why you sometimes see cyclists stop for red lights on the Greenway:
They're tourists who aren't accustomed to riding in the City.
They're parents with small children who want to teach the kids the rules of the road.