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Newsom vetoes stop sign law for cyclists

Old 10-21-21, 10:09 AM
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cthenn
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Newsom vetoes stop sign law for cyclists

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...-for-cyclists/

Bummer. Was hoping this would get signed, but it doesn't really change the way I ride. Still usually blow through most stop signs in residential neighborhoods (before checking for cars obvs), and never would run stop signs on busy roads. It would have been nice to be able to do that without being yelled at half the time by drivers.
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Old 10-21-21, 10:42 AM
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Yeah, I'm no happy about this, either. I mean, I voted "no" on the recall. Newsome owed it to me to sign the damn bill. What's that you say? That only works if I make a bazillion dollar campaign contribution? I guess that explains it. Who knew?

Have you read the veto message? Claptrap claiming the bill would endanger kiddies riding their bikes to school. No mention of how every state that has enacted the "Idaho stop" saw their bike accident rates go down. The tone suggests that the bill would legalize blowing through stop signs at speed with nary a glance - which it does not, of course. But I guess one should never expect facts to overcome preconceived notions.

As for drivers yelling at you, the ones who are yelling at you now would still have yelled at you even if Newsome had signed AB122.
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Old 10-21-21, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...-for-cyclists/

Bummer. Was hoping this would get signed, but it doesn't really change the way I ride. Still usually blow through most stop signs in residential neighborhoods (before checking for cars obvs), and never would run stop signs on busy roads. It would have been nice to be able to do that without being yelled at half the time by drivers.
HA! Like it being legal would stop them.
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Old 10-21-21, 12:56 PM
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Yeah, it is a bummer, but I don't really hear of a lot of people getting "not coming to a complete stop" tickets (1), so it's probably not a big deal.

(1) Except for those bogus rentacops in Danville/Diablo ... don't get me started.

Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
HA! Like it being legal would stop them.
It's not like they have any idea what's in the CVC either.
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Old 10-21-21, 01:04 PM
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In a single party state it's rare enough anything gets vetoed. That's probably the most newsworthy thing in the story. I doubt Newsom himself spent more than a couple of seconds thinking about this. He's got bigger problems to worry about. Although I'm sure he did make a final decision based on one or two ppt pages of pro/con input from his staff. Wonder if there was actually anyone working against it or the backers just failed to make it sound better than not.

He also basically says "we're already doing a lot" which is, for a US state, true.

OCT O8 2021

To the Members of the California State Assembly:

I am returning Assembly Bill 122 without my signature.

This bill would allow a person riding a bicycle to proceed through a stop sign as if it were a yield sign until January 1, 2028.

While I share the author's intent to increase bicyclist safety, I am concerned this bill will have the opposite effect. The approach in AB 122 may be especially concerning for children, who may not know how to judge vehicle speeds or exercise the necessary caution to yield to traffic when appropriate.

Fatalities and serious injuries have been on the rise on the state's roads since 2010. The Statewide Integrated Traffic Records System shows that, since 2015, there were 3,059 crashes involving bicycles at an intersection in which the primary collision factor was failure to stop at a stop sign. The data indicates bicyclists were determined to be at fault for 88 percent of the collisions resulting in fatalities and 63 percent of those involving injuries.

I fully support safe and equitable access to the state's transportation network for bicyclists. The California Climate Action Plan for Transportation Infrastructure describes how the state will invest in the transportation network to create safe and accessible bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure. The Department of Transportation (Caltrans} and the California State Transportation Agency are increasing active transportation investments and will release design guidance on traffic calming measures this year to encourage more walking and biking through a safe systems approach. For these reasons, I am returning this bill.
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Old 10-21-21, 01:32 PM
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So stick with me here for a moment of brutal logic:
1/ I assume that most bike riders make allowances that children may do anything at any moment, in any place, stop sign or not, and that this law would not change that, nor would it change the behavior of children.
2/ The law is aimed at the interaction between bikes and cars, not bikes and children.
3/ If the Gov assumes that this law will change something, he's making an assumption outside of those two points so perhaps he should address what appears to be a problem he has either with children driving cars, and enforce those laws more strictly, or he should move to stop licensing young children to drive cars, if that's his problem..
4/ The other possibility is that his statement makes no sense at all.
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Old 10-21-21, 02:55 PM
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mdarnton you've misread. The statement worries about kids on bikes running stop signs with poor judgment, not cyclists mowing down kids in crosswalks
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Old 10-21-21, 03:25 PM
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Is it really a surprise that given a choice between keeping a restriction in place and giving people more freedom, that he opted for the former?
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Old 10-21-21, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Is it really a surprise that given a choice between keeping a restriction in place and giving people more freedom, that he opted for the former?


Somebody's mad about the recall...
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Old 10-21-21, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
HA! Like it being legal would stop them.
Well what I guess I meant is that I wouldn't feel bad or "guilty" if I did that and it was legal. I get yelled at for running stop signs and some signals, and I know I'm doing something against the law, so I feel a little sheepish about it.
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Old 10-21-21, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post


Somebody's mad about the recall...
Or someone realizes that historically it is far more likely for government to impose restrictions than loosen them.
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Old 10-21-21, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mdarnton View Post
So stick with me here for a moment of brutal logic:
1/ I assume that most bike riders make allowances that children may do anything at any moment, in any place, stop sign or not, and that this law would not change that, nor would it change the behavior of children.
2/ The law is aimed at the interaction between bikes and cars, not bikes and children.
3/ If the Gov assumes that this law will change something, he's making an assumption outside of those two points so perhaps he should address what appears to be a problem he has either with children driving cars, and enforce those laws more strictly, or he should move to stop licensing young children to drive cars, if that's his problem..
4/ The other possibility is that his statement makes no sense at all.
Numbers 1 through 3 may or may not be correct, but Number 4 is definitely 100% correct.

Put another way, the veto message is full of Number 2.
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Old 10-22-21, 04:35 AM
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This may sound dangerous but as a cyclist I act like traffic laws only exist for cars and then adapt my way around them to minimize chance of contact with same said motor vehicles.

This translates into running stop signs and red lights almost all the time only because most of the near misses I had was in the "acceleration" phase crossing an intersection usually due to a red light or stop sign. Especially if I am familiar with an intersection, know the timing of the lights which can easily be surmised and at that moment more than one lane is clear (so what is green in the moment is empty and has nothing to run you over) it's just better to cross the intersection which at that moment you have to yourself then have to worry about "sharing" it with cars. I have greatly reduced honking, cars steering around me and near misses by doing it that way. If you don't have to stop don't stop, keep going.

The other beauty of conserving momentum is that you can get out of the way. I got a helmet mounted rearview mirror to see behind and it's helped as well in many instances to turn left. Once you're stopped at an intersection you're a sitting duck. Unless there's a sidewalk or good roadside on which to hide out you're right there and not really able to move much when stopped so evasive action is almost never a possibility. So never say always or never but generally stopping at red lights or stop signs is bad news more often than not.
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Old 10-22-21, 10:09 AM
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It would be nice to at least know which cities have a need to enforce these laws. Downtown Larkspur is notorious...and my hometown Pinole whenever there is a bike event.
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Old 10-22-21, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by curbtender View Post
It would be nice to at least know which cities have a need to enforce these laws. Downtown Larkspur is notorious...and my hometown Pinole whenever there is a bike event.
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There was some enforcement in my Walnut Creek neighborhood several years ago, specifically targeting cyclists, but that ended a while ago.
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Old 10-22-21, 11:17 AM
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As with many things, Berkeley has adopted a pretty laid back attitude. If you do an Idaho stop here, odds of your getting ticketed are very slight. Not zero, but very slight. Heck, if you just blow through a stop sign with nary a glance, you're unlikely to get a ticket. I believe it is the official policy of the Democratic People's Republic* handed down by the Politburo* to have the Police Department go with the Idaho stop, although it isn't phrased that way.

* I use these terms as a gentle jibe, not as a condemnation or declaration of political belief. Berkeley government has some policies I consider quirky, mostly okay, some less so. On balance, I like it here but recognize the, well, quirkiness of the place and the sometimes weird results. The city and the people are pretty bike-tolerant, even bike-friendly, however, so that is a big plus as far as I am concerned.
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Old 10-22-21, 11:50 AM
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In San Diego it seems like they've been allowing bikes to treat stop signs as yields for a while. I've rolled through stop signs in view of cops many times without issue. I do it safely though, slow down and look. My main fear is other cyclists that might cross my path and are also rolling through their stop signs.
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Old 10-27-21, 09:42 PM
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I know for a fact that the state sheriff's assn. lobbied against this and the decriminalizing jaywalking bill. I'll bet dollars to donuts that other law enforcement orgs did too. Jerks.

I will continue to slow through stop signs when safe.

Just today I saw a twit in a car completely blow through a stop sign at a busy intersection; he didn't even slow down. No cops anywhere.
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Old 10-28-21, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Attilio View Post
This may sound dangerous but as a cyclist I act like traffic laws only exist for cars and then adapt my way around them to minimize chance of contact with same said motor vehicles.

This translates into running stop signs and red lights almost all the time only because most of the near misses I had was in the "acceleration" phase crossing an intersection usually due to a red light or stop sign. Especially if I am familiar with an intersection, know the timing of the lights which can easily be surmised and at that moment more than one lane is clear (so what is green in the moment is empty and has nothing to run you over) it's just better to cross the intersection which at that moment you have to yourself then have to worry about "sharing" it with cars. I have greatly reduced honking, cars steering around me and near misses by doing it that way. If you don't have to stop don't stop, keep going.

The other beauty of conserving momentum is that you can get out of the way. I got a helmet mounted rearview mirror to see behind and it's helped as well in many instances to turn left. Once you're stopped at an intersection you're a sitting duck. Unless there's a sidewalk or good roadside on which to hide out you're right there and not really able to move much when stopped so evasive action is almost never a possibility. So never say always or never but generally stopping at red lights or stop signs is bad news more often than not.
Thanks for your explanation as to why you run red lights. It makes some amount of sense. However, on balance, I think the extra margin of safety you feel that you gain by running red lights is offset by the increased negative perception of bicyclists by those motorists who were sitting patiently at the red light and just watched you blow through it. These are things that I think spawn new "bike-haters". "Running red lights" seems to be the hot-button you will see on various online forums when the topic of cyclist bad behavior comes up. Also, remember that those motorists who saw you blow through the light are probably going to catch up to you later at which point they may not be in a mood to "share the road" anymore and take some kind of punitive action against you, such as passing too close, shouting a few choice expletives out the window, or worse.,
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Old 11-16-21, 12:39 PM
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Stop signs are stupid.
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Old 11-16-21, 01:09 PM
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there are rules & then there's enforcement. it's one thing to let it slide, it's another to say it's OK
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Old 11-17-21, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SCTinkering View Post
Stop signs are stupid. https://youtu.be/42oQN7fy_eM
Agree 100%. Still... My small city installed a bunch of new stop signs in 2019, and it has helped at least the perception of safety a lot. Despite it being downtown with plenty of pedestrians and bikes, cars did not want to slow down. Crossing 11th St., a major collector, on foot or bike was hair raising. It wasn't the drivers' fault, it was the street design; wide and straight, with not so much as a crosswalk for over half a mile; perfect for driving 40mph, never mind the 25mph speed limit. Hell, on the residential street where I live, every day we have idiots gunning their cars as fast as they can for the three (small residential) blocks to 7th St. and the first stop sign. I would suggest raised crosswalks, but our streets have been resurfaced so many times the crowns are higher than the sidewalks.

Sorry for the rant; I've been reading Chuck Mahrone's Confessions of a Recovering Engineer, and it's kind of blowing my mind.
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