AmericanFlyer80

Unfortunately, I was unlucky enough to get pulled over after running a red light on my bike in Sausalito. I just got my ticket in the mail and it's for $436! The punishment definitely doesn't fit the crime!

Anyway, I know I can't be the first person here to get one of these insanely expensive tickets and now I'm wondering how best to resolve the situation without having to pay the full amount of the fine. I assume that if I show up in court I can ask the judge to reduce the fine... anyone have experience in these matters? Or perhaps I should just get a lawyer... any recommendations for a lawyer?

Well, if you have any experience dealing with a similar ticket please share your advice.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

Tapeworm21

One thing I never understood. What's the rush? You can wait at a red light with a car NO PROBLEM... but on a bike apparently all cyclists are in a hurry. Just wait for the damn light! Biggest pet peeve for me is cyclists just blatantly running red lights... and then curse cars for not obeying this "3 foot space" law. No offense, but I'm glad Saus is doing this. Wish Berkeley would do the same.

JoelS

Wow! I don't have any advice, but that seems awfully steep to me, even if it had been a car.

FWIW, I wait at red lights. If they don't change for a full cycle, then I'll roll on through if it's clear. At least then I have a valid argument for running it.

knotty

This thread may give you some good advice.

It wasn't in Sausalito but pretty close.

Not stopping for peds starting to cross the street will also get you a ticket in Sausalito.

bikingshearer 

Ouch! That sucks major league dog doo-doo.

No, you do not want to get a lawyer. I kind of doubt that it makes ense to pay a lawyer a couple of thou to get out of a $436 ticket. Of course, I wasn't an econ major . . . .

As for going to argue the ticket, that depends on what it'll cost you to do that. Will you have to burn vacation time? How much is that worth. There are lots of variables there, but you get the idea.

Also, I would not count on getting the amount reduced. Traffic tickets are money-makers for towns and for the courts. Seriously. Considering the state of government coffers these days, do not count on much in the way of leniency.

Of more concern - will this affect your auto insurance rates? I don't know the answer to that. But your main goal may be to get diverted to traffic school (I know - yuch) to keep the "points" off your license. Like I said, I don't know if infractions on a bike count against our driving record, but it is worth finding out.

gpelpel

Bikes are subjects to the same laws as cars; same rules, same punishments. It's not because we only have 2 wheels instead of 4 that we get a 50% discount.
I am sure you also drive, so try to imagine your reaction if you had a cyclist ride thru a red light in front of you.

pacificaslim

This is not accurate. Bike tickets will not go on one's driving record since they are unrelated, and therefore will not impact insurance rates. There are also different fine amounts for bike tickets and car tickets but sometimes the officer does not correctly note on the ticket that it was a bicycle ticket and so people get charged the car rates! If it is not specifically mentioned on your ticket that it is a bike ticket, you may have it dismissed by appearing in court.

In general there is no traffic school option for bike tickets unless a community has specifically created one and I think there is one in some parts (all?) of Marin so you may luck out! Look into it. I think it reduces the fine a lot.

ahpook

Is your argument going to be that you did not roll through the stop sign? Or that you did, but it wasn't against the law?

You pays your money and takes your chances...

AmericanFlyer80

A traffic lawyer shouldn't run over $250 and most will guarantee that your ticket will be dismissed and cleared from your record or else they will refund your payment.

The cop said that points will not be taken from my license and that the ticket wouldn't affect my auto insurance.

and traffic school... nah, don't think I need that as I'm getting enough unsolicited "traffic school" advice here ;-)

AmericanFlyer80

My argument would be that the light turned yellow just as I entered the interestion. It turned red about 3/4 to the other side, but I was still in interestion for a second or two of red. If I had been in a car I would have easily made it through the interestion while the light was yellow, but on my bike it took a little longer to cover the distance. I tried to explain to the officer that it would have been more dangerous for me to slam on my brakes at the sight of the yellow light, but he wasn't having it.

scattante

Hey did this happen on Sunday? If so I might have seen it, but the guy I saw clearly ran the red light, and right in front of a cop. I saw two cops after that talking to cyclists.

pacificaslim

If you were into the intersection before it turned red, then you did not violate the law!

smittie61984

True. Redlight cameras only go off after the light turns red and THEN someone goes over the white line.

Somewhat related but I know in some states that (even in a car or motorcycle) if the light goes through 2-3 cycles then you can run it (providing no one else is coming). Now I've never had a problem going through a redlight if the road was clear and it wasn't picking me up. Which has happend to me on my motorcycle.

But if the light was straight up ran then yeah you deserve a ticket. We like to buy those plates and bumper stickers that say "Share the road" or "Same road same rules" etc. Then we run around like a bunch of drunk monkeys at "Critical Mass" hoping to make motorists appreciate us.

gpelpel

I had a speeding violation once in Marin county and went to court to contest. Believe me the judge is not one you want to deal with, she was tough, very tough. My luck was that the cop who assigned the ticket didn't show up, otherwise I was set for a month without driving. All the individuals who came before me got hit pretty hard.

AmericanFlyer80

The officer acknowledged that I entered the light while it was yellow, but said the law is that you must be out of the interection before the light turns red. I'll be calling a few traffic lawyers tomorrow to find out what my real options are. I'm glad to see that in the other thread that Knotty posted another guy eventually got off with only a $50 fine after attending "Bike Safety School" haha. I have hope!

BTW, this all happened Monday, April 6 around 1:30 pm.

curbtender

I don't ride Marin too often, but I have noticed that the police pay extra attention to bikes there. Your best bet would be to become a bike messenger and tell everyone (courts, hospitals, landlords, tax collectors...) to get in the collections line.

jonathanb715

I'm not a lawyer, but you might have a shot at this. The vehicle code says that you can't enter an intersection when a traffic light is red; all it says about yellow is that the driver is warned that the light is about to turn red. The code does not say the intersection must be cleared before the light turns red (although imagine how many problems it would solve it it did say something like that?!!). Even the cop agreed that you did not enter the intersection when the light was red. Unless Sausalito has it's own code that says the intersection must be cleared by the time a signal goes red (some cities do), maybe the judge would agree with your position.

https://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd11c2a3.htm

JB

kix

You can dramatically reduce the fine with bike safety course. Look up the local bike coalition in Sausalito/Marin for help on this.

The other thing you can do is boycott businesses in Sausalito and try to starve out the police funding. :-)

gpelpel

I have nothing personal against the OP (so don't take it personally) but there's something I don't understand from his post and some of the responses.
We, cyclists, are always complaining when car drivers don't give us any respect, yell at us, or worse push us out of the road. And here we have one of us who admits "running a red light" thus braking a major rule of the road and we try to find excuses to not pay the consequences. Guys, we cannot have one without the other, we cannot enjoy equal rights if we don't accept equal responsibilities.
If you admit "running a red light" what do you except in going to court and wasting tax payer money?
You knew what a traffic light means, you took your chance and lost. I understand you are pissed off, I would as well. But, please, get over it and, hopefully, learn from it!

prathmann

No, we have a cyclist who admits that he was still in the process of crossing the intersection when the light turned red. That is NOT the same as running a red light nor is it in violation of the California Vehicle Code - for either car drivers or cyclists. The CVC is very clear that you must not *enter* the intersection after the light turns red; entering on the yellow and then having the light turn red is not a violation.

AmericanFlyer80

When the punishment doesn't fit the crime I do believe a person should object to said punishment. A fine of $436 is unreasonably high and almost twice the national standard. If that means voicing my opionion in a court of law, so be it. That's a part of how our legal system works and I don't feel it's a waste of my tax money.... especially, given my circumstance of entering the intersection during a yellow signal (which, in my opinion, was a safer decision than locking up my brakes at ~20 mph). I should have perhaps been given a stern warning from the officer, but a not a $436 ticket.

And speaking of equal rights... when did you last hear of a driver being fined $436 for not respecting cyclists? I didn't know "respect" for cyclists is a "major rule of the road." ... Apples and oranges in my OP.

mtnwalker

Actually, the OP admitted to running the red light in the original post. It was later on that he thought about the yellow light then the light turned red. It could be a matter of substituting ones reality to another in this case.

bigbossman 

I know that this used to be the case in CA, but it is my understanding that the law was changed several years ago to it being necessary to exit the intersection before the light turned red. Can't find it, though.

Still looking......

bikingshearer 

"Traffic lawyers"? Never heard of that flavor of barrister before. Not saying they don't exist, just that that's a new one on me.

As for what the cop told you: don't take his/her word for it. Maybe the cop is right, maybe the cop is wrong, but it isn't the cop who pays the price if it's the latter. Do your due diligence here, as it's your points and insurance at stake.

As for your last comment, maybe BF can start an on -line "bike traffic school" and make a few extra shekels.

t4mv

Maybe it could involve an Audi stn wagon going to the top of Diablo and dropping you off for a schooling back down...