Volagi Liscio vs. Specialized Roubaix lawsuite
 

Anyone ride a Volagi Liscio?

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_19662131

I like the disc brakes.

I wonder how much of it comes down to what they thought up and designed while working for Specialized. I know that as a biological scientist, everywhere I've worked so far (university, hospital, private institutions), I've had to sign away the rights to any potential intellectual property I might produce while employed by them (no matter whether or not it was conceived during "working hours"-they're all working hours when you're on salary-or on their property. Since they want the guys to hand over their patents rather than challenging the validity of the patents, my guess is it's something along those lines. Still, if Speciallized is not putting out disc braked road bikes, it seems as though it's a different market.

I don't believe there are any trade secrets - what could they be? Carbon fiber layup details? Magical Zertz materials? Seems like corporate bullying to me.

Specialized got their big break when they stole Gary Fisher and Tom Ritchie's design for the mountain bike, then had it mass produced for less in Asia. Now they are suing their own employees? I hope they lose this one.

I wonder if Specialized is going to claim that the Volagi was designed while they were employees of the company, and therefore Specialized owns the design?

I would bet on that. If they can prove the 2 designers worked on some of the designs while under Specialized employment then their work will be considered a company property even if the company tanked the ideas and did not convert them into marketed products.

Oops, I didn't see that I accidentally restated himespau's post.

As I selfishly read this, I am trying to imagine some, perhaps unlikely, series of events where, due to unprecedented legal maneuverings, one of these bikes ends up in my hands as part of a test case/class action or post-trial dumpster diving excursion (where I bravely rescue bikes that are slated to be destroyed.)

For the record, I'd prefer the black and white one over the red, or all black, tough I wouldn't turn down either.

http://volagi.com/sites/default/file...ed-cropped.jpg

Curtis, you and Robocheme should team up and do a TV show.

If your dumpster diving yields two, feel free to send one my way.

Blech, disk brakes on a road bike.

Your comment has been noted, and depending on which way the future lands, you will be praised or ridiculed. Please check back in three years.

http://www.facebook.com/volagi/posts/355322411151386
Their facebook page with their story on all this.

Thanks for the link

As a cyclist and a human, I was very interested to read this.

As a lawyer, I sure hope they ran this by their trial counsel before they posted it, as there appears to be some things in it that Specialized's clawyers can make hay with. I'm guessing there is nothing in it that hadn't already come out in the pre-trial discovery process, but still, there are some statements in the Facebook post that sound like admissions to me. Assuming everything in the Facebook post is 100% accurate - and I have no reason to think otherwise - I would say that (1) the Volagi guys are on the side of the angels, morally, and (2) they may still be screwed, legally. (Disclaimer: I know just enough about the pertinent law to be dangerous, and I have absolutely no connection whatsoever to this case, so I may be 100% wrong here.)

There is a life lesson here for everyone. If you are ever unfortunate enough to be in a civil lawsuit, don't say anything about it anyone - and I mean anyone - without clearing it with your lawyer first. Seriously. Unless you are a lawyer familiar with the case, you have no clue how what you say might come back to bite you in the @$$. I have seen Facebook posts do serious damage to an otherwise solid case. So, if you are in a lawsuit, on either side, keep your mouth shut. Let your lawyer do the talking.

On the other hand, it is possible that Specialized may lose in the court of public opinion, and this may make them think twice about bullying a small company. One can always hope...

:D

I really dig the idea of disc brakes on a quality road bike. I'm not headed to the Tour de Anything In Particular as a pro, and as an ameteurish type, I like disc brakes for a host of reasons.

Maybe Specialized will steal that idea. :p

interview with robert choi
http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/01/05/...it/#more-38592

Yeah, it does sound like Specialized is claiming they thought up the design while under contract to Specialized so they should own the patent. That's tough unless they have dated notebooks showing it was designed afterwards. IP in these areas can get messy. Sort of surprised they didn't have to sign some sort of non-compete.

Ok, I may be naive, but Specialized says the design is stolen from them. Well, last time I checked, there was no disc brake road bike. Disc brake on road bikes? Why not. Descending hundreds of miles on 25% grades do take its toll on normal brake pads. Plus, I like the idea of a bike designed for endurance rides (longer than 50 miles).

Interesting link. I agree with Himespau's take, I don't think this has anything to do with disk brakes. I work in a field where IP is a huge issue, and the two bolded parts below give me pause. To my layman's eye, it appears to confirm that Specialized are claiming that the Volagi designs originated while they were still employed by Specialized, subject to the conditions of their contracts that likely assigned all inventions to Specialized.

"Now the case isn’t really about us stealing their design, but about us breaching our contract for confidentiality, non-compete and invention assignment. Basically that we took their trade secrets. The suit claims that anything we created or thought of while we were in their employ, whether it was at work or on our own time, that the property was theirs. Because of this, they’re having a hard time coming up with damages. They’re claiming the Longbow seat stay design should be assigned to them and we should pay royalties on it to them.

The case really hinges on when we formulated our ideas. By the time we had really discussed a concept in any detail, we both agreed that we needed to quit and pursue it on our own."

The wording of the second part wouldn't make me feel confident. I can't imagine that "agreeing to need to quit" would cut it in court, as opposed to say, having actually quit, left the company, and having documented when the inventions were made.

One other thing that strikes me as odd - Specialized is going after these guys almost the minute they launch a product. They've not waited to see if they actually make any money from the design; from a business point of view that seems intriguing. As of today, I'm thinking Specialized is spending way more money pursuing this that they will make from any kind of royalty settlement.

Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole case doesn't boost sales anyway. You can't say that this has been bad PR for those guys.

Interesting and cognet observations, Beaker. You spotted what could well prove to be a major problem statement for the Volagi guys. There can be a world of difference between what one does before leaving and what one does after leaving.

As for why Specialized jumped on this so early and the cost-effectiveness of the suit, it appears that Specialized made the business decision to be very proactive about any issues that might have an impact on their intellectual property. Some companies do it that way, so not. Who's right? That is in the minds of the decision-makers of Specialized and the other companies.

I don't think this has anything to do with disc brakes either. What trade secrets and intellectual property could Specialized possibly have? Things like test results on how different carbon fiber materials and configurations respond to different kinds of loading, best ways to layup tricky joints, things like that. These two guys weren't bike designers but they maybe had access to that kind of info and the opportunity to steal it.