Notices
Northern California Northern California

tresspassing?

Old 10-03-13, 11:40 AM
  #1  
Member
Thread Starter
 
ScottRae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: middle of California
Posts: 34

Bikes: Trek mountain bike, Centurion road bike, Trek single speed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
tresspassing?

Living here in the central valley of California there really aren't that many good off road trails to ride on. So like many I load the bike on the car and head to the hills. Recently I have noticed that a lot of the farms around here have dirt roads running between the orchards and vineyards. Some of the irrigation ditches have nice contours to them, is it illegal to ride in these areas if there are no signs saying to keep out. One summer in Central Europe I was told farmers can't say anything as long as you don't damage their crops, but I have a feeling it is different here in California.
ScottRae is offline  
Old 10-03-13, 03:51 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Near Sacramento
Posts: 4,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Why not just go knock on the door and ask?
__________________
-------

Some sort of pithy irrelevant one-liner should go here.
JoelS is offline  
Old 10-03-13, 09:03 PM
  #3  
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 10,007

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4370 Post(s)
Liked 3,031 Times in 1,642 Posts
Originally Posted by ScottRae
One summer in Central Europe I was told farmers can't say anything as long as you don't damage their crops, but I have a feeling it is different here in California.
I heard in Sweden about something called "allemansricht" (I'm sure I misspelled that) which is a rule that says you can't prohibit someone from accessing your property for purposes of travel. I thought that was an interesting cultural difference between them and us.

Riding on a dirt path might not be a big deal, but an irrigation ditch might be if there's ny chance you could damage it.
DiabloScott is offline  
Old 10-04-13, 08:27 AM
  #4  
Lance Legweak
 
HIPCHIP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Woodland, California, USA
Posts: 867

Bikes: Felt Z-70, GT RTS-2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Most county maintained roads, even dirt roads, will have street signs, so those would be open to you unless specifically marked as closed. If these roads are definitely just access roads to the farmer's fields, then you would be trespassing. The famers also worry about theft, so sometimes they are very strict about people being on their roads (I.E. the police will be called). While I don't live in your specific area, you could get into trouble.

You can also check a map, or Goggle Maps/Yahoo Maps, etc. and see if they show up on the map as a legitimate road/street, or if they are not on the map at all, then you can pretty much determine that they are private roads. Most roads that are private roads that do have a street sign show "Private" on the sign, but I would imagine not all street signs would have this, but if it has a street sign and it's not marked as "Private" at least you have an "Out" if you are stopped for trespassing.

One other source to check would be with your local police or sheriff's department. Just give them a call and give them the location(s) you are talking about and ask them if they know about these roads.
Last resort, as stated above, if you can find the owner, see about getting permission, but because of potential liability problems, don't be surprised if the answer is "No".
HIPCHIP is offline  
Old 10-04-13, 08:43 AM
  #5  
Hogosha Sekai
 
RaleighSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: STS
Posts: 6,669

Bikes: Leader 725, Centurion Turbo, Scwhinn Peloton, Schwinn Premis, GT Tequesta, Bridgestone CB-2,72' Centurion Lemans, 72 Raleigh Competition

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times in 15 Posts
IME the vineyard guys will not want you there, I live across the street from one and can get away with it in the fall/winter to access the local river but only because it's the off season and they aren't working out there.
RaleighSport is offline  
Old 10-16-13, 04:13 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 325
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I never used to get yelled at as a kid. Some of the roads they have / maintain are actually public right of ways. I'd go to the local assessor's office and figure out which are public right of ways.
sjvcycler is offline  
Old 10-16-13, 04:50 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,400

Bikes: Bianchi Infinito (Celeste, of course)

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 754 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 77 Posts
Originally Posted by DiabloScott
I heard in Sweden about something called "allemansricht" (I'm sure I misspelled that) which is a rule that says you can't prohibit someone from accessing your property for purposes of travel. I thought that was an interesting cultural difference between them and us.

Riding on a dirt path might not be a big deal, but an irrigation ditch might be if there's ny chance you could damage it.
There's a similar concepts in US law about public right of ways and access (especially regarding public areas such as beaches). The catch is "for the purposes of travel". A road between fields wouldn't have a destination for you to travel to.
gsa103 is offline  
Old 10-16-13, 06:37 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 7,048
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by HIPCHIP
You can also check a map, or Goggle Maps/Yahoo Maps, etc. and see if they show up on the map as a legitimate road/street, or if they are not on the map at all, then you can pretty much determine that they are private roads.
I wouldn't put too much faith in Google Maps for this purpose. I have encountered many private roads that don't even go thru that show up on Google Maps as through streets. I've also ridden on roads that don't show up on Google maps even thought they are federally maintained paved roads in National Forest land. I don't know anything about Google's methods, but it looks like they have software that looks for things that look like roads in aerial views and puts them on the maps.
B. Carfree is offline  
Old 10-16-13, 07:22 PM
  #9  
hup
Senior Member
 
hup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central Valley CA
Posts: 291

Bikes: '04 Serotta CIII, '01 Lemond Poprad, mid 90s Burley Rock N Roll Tandem, Old School Specialized HardRock, '15 GT Grade alloy

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I live in the Central Valley too, in Madera. I often ride out in the vines and the orchards. I haven't been told not to yet, but if someone approached me I'd certainly tell them that I would stay off of that particular road in the future. I think that folks around here generally realize that you mean no harm. Not to say that some day I won't encounter an exception to that. I think that I'd avoid tearing up the road and certainly not drop any trash or anything.
As an aside, my friend and I were riding in the foothills near Hensley and Eastman Lakes. Both of the are US Army Corps of Engineers facilities so they were, in effect, closed. There was actually a locked gate on the road to Eastman. We decided that it would be worth risking a fine to ride the last 5 miles or so up to the lake void of vehicle traffic, so off we went. When we were at the late, the civilian caretaker came out and screamed at us. "YOU'RE RISKING A STIFF FINE!", he yelled. We responded with, "we're leaving right now!" Later down the road we saw a couple of rangers. One waved at us, the other just nodded.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
IMG_1957.jpg (17.7 KB, 16 views)
hup is offline  
Old 10-16-13, 09:36 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
bbbean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,704

Bikes: Giant Propel, Cannondale SuperX, Univega Alpina Ultima

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 678 Post(s)
Liked 431 Times in 259 Posts
It's private property. Be one of the good guys and ask permission. Take it from a farmer.

BB (www.beancotton.com)
__________________

Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton

bbbean is offline  
Old 10-18-13, 09:56 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,935

Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque

Mentioned: 107 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2376 Post(s)
Liked 2,904 Times in 1,583 Posts
Originally Posted by DiabloScott
I heard in Sweden about something called "allemansricht" (I'm sure I misspelled that) which is a rule that says you can't prohibit someone from accessing your property for purposes of travel. I thought that was an interesting cultural difference between them and us.

Riding on a dirt path might not be a big deal, but an irrigation ditch might be if there's ny chance you could damage it.
This also includes being able to pitch a tent and camp overnight as I recall from my Swedish friends
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)



squirtdad is offline  
Old 10-18-13, 10:17 AM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
bbbean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,704

Bikes: Giant Propel, Cannondale SuperX, Univega Alpina Ultima

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 678 Post(s)
Liked 431 Times in 259 Posts
Originally Posted by squirtdad
This also includes being able to pitch a tent and camp overnight as I recall from my Swedish friends
No such law in the US.

We used to be more laid back about letting people hunt, walk, bike, etc on our farms, but the number of people who abuse the priviledge, combined with the rise of liability suits mean that people are a lot testier about their property rights than they used to be. Tresspass on the wrong farm, and you could conceivably meet both the owner and the gun he carries for protection.

If you didn't ask permission, he has no way of knowing whether you're a considerate biker just enjoying the view or a thug looking to vandalize something, steal copper, or caue some other sort of problem.

BB
__________________

Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton

bbbean is offline  
Old 10-18-13, 10:28 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,935

Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque

Mentioned: 107 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2376 Post(s)
Liked 2,904 Times in 1,583 Posts
Originally Posted by bbbean
No such law in the US.

We used to be more laid back about letting people hunt, walk, bike, etc on our farms, but the number of people who abuse the priviledge, combined with the rise of liability suits mean that people are a lot testier about their property rights than they used to be. Tresspass on the wrong farm, and you could conceivably meet both the owner and the gun he carries for protection.

If you didn't ask permission, he has no way of knowing whether you're a considerate biker just enjoying the view or a thug looking to vandalize something, steal copper, or caue some other sort of problem.

BB
I understand. I grew up in montana and have plenty of stories from rancher/farmer friends about the damage done both ignoran like open a gate and then don't close it and cows get out and deliberate lke shootiny any thing in sight or to just not taking your trash out.

Liability is a whole thing that nobody cared about 40 years ago. Farmers/ranchers are having destroy old buildings so trespassers don't get hurt and so that no one uses them for ad hoc meth labs

So now even the friendliest ranchers/farmers have posted their land and even close friends check in before going fishing, hiking or hunting
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)



squirtdad is offline  
Old 10-18-13, 10:53 AM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
bbbean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,704

Bikes: Giant Propel, Cannondale SuperX, Univega Alpina Ultima

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 678 Post(s)
Liked 431 Times in 259 Posts
Originally Posted by squirtdad
I understand. I grew up in montana and have plenty of stories from rancher/farmer friends about the damage done both ignoran like open a gate and then don't close it and cows get out and deliberate lke shootiny any thing in sight or to just not taking your trash out.

Liability is a whole thing that nobody cared about 40 years ago. Farmers/ranchers are having destroy old buildings so trespassers don't get hurt and so that no one uses them for ad hoc meth labs

So now even the friendliest ranchers/farmers have posted their land and even close friends check in before going fishing, hiking or hunting
Yup. We've had meth coks destroy two houses on the farm, and no longer keep old houses. If a house goes vacant for more than a year, it gets torn down. Too much of a temptation for meth cooks, and meth cooks always manage to steal a few things on ther way in and out.

BB
__________________

Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton

bbbean is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
athrowawaynic
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
27
04-25-17 09:38 PM
squirtdad
Advocacy & Safety
8
05-17-13 01:23 PM
allroy71
Southern California
6
04-25-12 03:12 PM
agoodale
Advocacy & Safety
3
07-08-10 06:13 PM
spingineer
Northern California
12
04-05-10 11:25 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.