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Downside to physical Healthy Aging

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Downside to physical Healthy Aging

Old 04-30-20, 11:18 AM
  #1  
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Downside to physical Healthy Aging

Not sure where this post should go.
Clearly 50+ material
65-85 thread appropriate.

But I'll choose here.

Downside to physically healthy aging?... is watching and learning of friends who have 'prematurely' declined and or died due to medical issues (not car crashes, or stupid manly accidents or suicide). I'm talking about folks in their 60s/early 70s. Recently got updates on men who had guided their sons thru BoyScouting, as I did, and with whom I shared more than a few campfires. All younger than me, 3 of 5 have passed on, only one still active (the depressed fella who contacted me). My 59yo brother-in-law coping after liver&kidney transplant, older brother in Chicago hospital after a paralyzing stroke, etc. There is a cancer survivor among my siblings.

I know, I know......it's better than the alternative.
Many have been 'lifestyle' issues - inactivity, over-worked(?), diet, reliance upon treating symptoms rather than working for cures.
Then there's the Cancers. We've crapped in our own sandbox and GMO'd all the food supplies.
Did we Party too hard? Can we blame the repeal of Prohibition? Big Pharma Addictions instead of Solutions? Television and The Media?

I heard the life expectancy in USA showed a decline - not sure the specifics. Even with a huge drop in lung cancer deaths from smoking.

But darn - just darn...... the downsides of healthy aging.

I don't need the Smiley Pills. Maybe just talking out loud to myself - the questions seem more valid when spoken and not held inside my head.

Thanks for reading - not really looking for replies.
Got bikes to ride and roads to see and places to visit. A wife, good kids and grandkids. Healthy Aging?
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Old 04-30-20, 05:29 PM
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hear ya man. Not to mention keeping your body in shape to live longer but then dealing with dementia
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Old 04-30-20, 06:17 PM
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I've gotta try to beat my family history - no male on either side has made it past 73 going back several generations, and I turn 62 in two weeks.

High blood pressure - is on both sides - my maternal grandmother dying of a stroke at 51. My dad was on blood pressure meds before age 30, mom at 31. At least I didn't start on them until almost 45, but now on a cocktail of three different blood-pressure meds to keep it in check.

Heart disease - my dad's side - his mother at 72, and younger brother went at 64, and dad at 72 after having his first TWO heart attacks at 55, and angioplasty after that.

Cancer - Mother side. I beat that once already. ALL of the males have developed prostate cancer. Her dad died of it at age 73 in 1962 (but back then they didn't do anything about it)... Mom's older sister's four boys (my cousins) all have it in some form ( but slow growing). My prostate cancer was discovered at age 52, and prostate removed ASAP because it was a fast-growing one.

What baffles my docs are my cholesterol is consistently between 175-180 for the past 20 years, but yet i have the high blood pressure -- and yet low pulse rate (under 65) and even that drops to the upper 40s to low 50s when sleeping.... Blood too thick? I'm not about to take rat poison (warfarin) blood thinners...

Yep, I'm weird... and screwed...
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Old 04-30-20, 06:57 PM
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Sometimes I say make time pay for its passage but that seems falsely defiant for these times when we face so many challenges beyond individual control. Maybe better to quote Tiny Tim than Roy Batty.

If you're feeling it today you're not alone. Be good to each other.
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Old 04-30-20, 07:35 PM
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A friend of mine had a dad that lived to 102. He (friend, not father) told me, "I don't have enough money to live that long."
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Old 04-30-20, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Cougrrcj View Post
.....................I turn 62 in two weeks................... My prostate cancer was discovered at age 52, and prostate removed ASAP because it was a fast-growing one..................

Glad to read you are doing GREAT. 10 years ago far too often men were told they had FAST GROWING PCa when in reality it was far from it. Today a Gleason 10 such as mine and even GL 8 or GL 9 are hit with radiation and/or chemo after a possible RP with recurrence within 5 to 10 years and even death. I assume you are on a PSA check at 3 month intervals with a 3TmpMRI once a year, as that is pretty much the Standard of Care currently for FAST GROWING.
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Old 05-01-20, 06:42 AM
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Hmm, and I’m depressed because at age 79.5 I couldn’t keep up with a couple of guys 9 and 15 years younger than me on a 26 mi ride in a high wind yesterday. I’m asthmatic with a touch of COPD and am a prostate cancer survivor.
i feel better after reading these posts.😊. Nil desperandum!
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Old 05-01-20, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by OldTryGuy View Post
Glad to read you are doing GREAT. 10 years ago far too often men were told they had FAST GROWING PCa when in reality it was far from it. Today a Gleason 10 such as mine and even GL 8 or GL 9 are hit with radiation and/or chemo after a possible RP with recurrence within 5 to 10 years and even death. I assume you are on a PSA check at 3 month intervals with a 3TmpMRI once a year, as that is pretty much the Standard of Care currently for FAST GROWING.
After years of PSA being 0.9-1.2, my PSA had jumped from 1.2 to 2.4 in only a year. Doc says 'Hmmmm...re-test in six weeks to be sure'. New PSA test showed 3.0. Doc says "You! Biopsy NOW!" Needle Biopsy confirmed cancer in one half of the gland. I was give options - do nothing, radiation (either direct-focused or implanted 'seeds'), or surgical removal. Pluses and minuses for each. The problem with radiation is that it 'cooks' the surrounding tissues, making it tougher just like a well-done steak, and makes future surgical options much more difficult with greater chance of complications like cutting a nerve for bladder control, etc. Given my 'young age' and longer-terms risks, I opted for surgical removal.

Surgery was six weeks later. Post-surgery biopsy indicated that the cancer had spread throughout the whole gland, and was on the verge of breaking out of the gland itself and metastasizing.

Follow-ups were PSA testing every four months. After eight years of 'undetectable', I was determined to be cancer-free.
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Old 05-01-20, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Cougrrcj View Post
.....................Surgery was six weeks later. Post-surgery biopsy indicated that the cancer had spread throughout the whole gland, and was on the verge of breaking out of the gland itself and metastasizing.................Follow-ups were PSA testing every four months. After eight years of 'undetectable', I was determined to be cancer-free.
Sounds GREAT but hope you still have a PSA once every year. SUPER congratulations if your GLEASON results were 9 or 10.
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Old 05-01-20, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Cougrrcj View Post
I've gotta try to beat my family history - no male on either side has made it past 73 going back several generations, and I turn 62 in two weeks.

High blood pressure - is on both sides - my maternal grandmother dying of a stroke at 51. My dad was on blood pressure meds before age 30, mom at 31. At least I didn't start on them until almost 45, but now on a cocktail of three different blood-pressure meds to keep it in check.

Heart disease - my dad's side - his mother at 72, and younger brother went at 64, and dad at 72 after having his first TWO heart attacks at 55, and angioplasty after that.

Cancer - Mother side. I beat that once already. ALL of the males have developed prostate cancer. Her dad died of it at age 73 in 1962 (but back then they didn't do anything about it)... Mom's older sister's four boys (my cousins) all have it in some form ( but slow growing). My prostate cancer was discovered at age 52, and prostate removed ASAP because it was a fast-growing one.

What baffles my docs are my cholesterol is consistently between 175-180 for the past 20 years, but yet i have the high blood pressure -- and yet low pulse rate (under 65) and even that drops to the upper 40s to low 50s when sleeping.... Blood too thick? I'm not about to take rat poison (warfarin) blood thinners...

Yep, I'm weird... and screwed...
This resonates. I turn 53 in a week and I am coming into a critical age for the men in my family. My uncle had a massive heart attack when he was 54. He died from it. My dad, his younger brother, had a "cardiac event" when he was also 54. He was lucky: he was at home, mom called 911, and EMTs were there within minutes. (They live in a small town with a volunteer FD and a local FF/EMT heard the call and literally ran to the house and was there doing CPR when the truck arrived.) He had a 4-way bypass and survived. Both my dad and his brother had years of poor diet, sedentary stressful jobs, drank too much, smoked too much.

Not unexpectedly, I guess, all the cousins are fitness fanatics: IM triathlete, open water swimmer, runners, cyclists like myself. We've all got the genes, but we're doing everything we can to ameliorate the rest.
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Old 05-01-20, 01:49 PM
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Growing old is not for the faint of heart!
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Old 05-03-20, 09:10 PM
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For me, the suckiest part of getting old has been friends and friends of friends dying. Of "old age" but younger than I. If things keep going on like this, it'll just get lonelier and lonelier. I think this is pretty well known, but it's good form not to talk about it.

Yes, US life expectancy has been declining, while that in the rest of the developed world has been increasing. The reasons are the very poor health care that anyone below the rank of highly-skilled worker gets, and the drug addiction problems which are the result of all those people who see that for the first time in American history, their lives will not be as good as those of their parents. The cause is the increased wealth disparity in the US.

Edit: I just realized that I made a terrible mistake in the above: I should not have said "highly--skilled", but rather "highly-educated". The 98% of American farm workers who are Latinx are highly-skilled and don't get minimum wage. I couldn't begin to keep up with these folks on my best day.
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Old 05-04-20, 08:32 AM
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There are numerous factors that effect quality of life and longevity. The most obvious is genetics but we have no choice about that one. Another is environment but here we almost always do have a choice. A coal miner works in a bad environment and lung disease is one consequence.

There are other situations that produce similar effects of lung disease. I once delivered a sailboat from the US Virgin Islands to NYC. On the last day as we approached NY harbor, while still well over the horizon, a gray haze could be seen and smelled. In another hour or two I could no longer see or smell it but we still breathed it in. In a similar way, even in a small town like Bristol, on a nice clear day looking northward toward Providence, the capital 15 miles away where two interstate and several state highways converge, a similar gray haze can be seen. These environments will cause breathing problems eventually, say in 15 to 20 years, depending on genetics. I once quit a job in Connecticut where I traveled on I 95 to work in bumper to bumper traffic, not only breathing fumes but arriving at work already pissed. Not a good way to go through life.

Stress is another important contributor to long term and sometimes to short term health. Just several days ago an MD committed suicide, evidently due to the stress of dealing daily with life and death issues. In a similar way, care givers to family members suffer considerable stress and are vulnerable to health impairment. And of course, the fast pace of life today and the resulting hassles takes a toll.
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Old 05-04-20, 06:16 PM
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We definitely need to keep on riding; I have about 6 conditions controlled by meds but supplemented with lots of riding. At 77 I have several non athletic doctors who wonder why I am still above ground. My cardiologist wants me on the bike as much as possible and supports my return to running after 8 years lost due to a back fusion. Perhaps I got lucky by inheriting genes from an athletic mother. In my opinion if I stop or slow down much, I die.
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Old 05-05-20, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
Many have been 'lifestyle' issues - inactivity, over-worked(?), diet, reliance upon treating symptoms rather than working for cures.
Although genetics has a lot to do with it, many "lifestyle" issues are just throwing gasoline on the fire.


Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Yes, US life expectancy has been declining, while that in the rest of the developed world has been increasing. The reasons are the very poor health care that anyone below the rank of highly-skilled worker gets,
My problem with "life expectancy" reports and models is that most of them are generalized and include things like suicide and automobile accidents. Although I can't ensure that I'll never be killed in an automobile accident I'd like to know what the expectancy would be without these included. You have to remember that the life expectancy models include smokers, drinkers, the obese etc. I personally think that for relatively healthy seniors like us who exercise and get proper medical attention when required... we have a lot longer life to look forward to than we're being told.

But I guess in response to the OP, it's hard to accept the aging process and what it brings with it. There's no getting around that many we know are going to leave before we do, but many will leave after.
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Old 05-05-20, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
hear ya man. Not to mention keeping your body in shape to live longer but then dealing with dementia

You hit the nail in my head.
i mean.
You nailed the hit in my head.
i mean
the nail in my head can't get hit.

Dementia = not quite hitting the nail on its' head.
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Old 05-05-20, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by TakingMyTime View Post
Although genetics has a lot to do with it, many "lifestyle" issues are just throwing gasoline on the fire.




My problem with "life expectancy" reports and models is that most of them are generalized and include things like suicide and automobile accidents. Although I can't ensure that I'll never be killed in an automobile accident I'd like to know what the expectancy would be without these included. You have to remember that the life expectancy models include smokers, drinkers, the obese etc. I personally think that for relatively healthy seniors like us who exercise and get proper medical attention when required... we have a lot longer life to look forward to than we're being told. Increases in scientific knowledge never meet universal acclaim.

But I guess in response to the OP, it's hard to accept the aging process and what it brings with it. There's no getting around that many we know are going to leave before we do, but many will leave after.
Media reports on life expectancy are mostly political in nature rather than scientific. For science-based viewpoints we have to google. I think this is as it should be. There does not seem to be a plateau in life expectancy increases in healthy older people. And . . .
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...8/#!po=3.57143
https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/fu....061607.220533
and many more out there looking at diverse pieces of the puzzle.

The political issue is that these increases are not universal across income levels. I've been reading The Gene by Siddartha Mukharjee, a history of genetics. Speaking to your first sentence, it became obvious to genetic researchers in the '30s that research into genetic equality in humans could not begin until there was economic and social equality. Unfortunately everything immediately went off in the opposite direction and never recovered. Increases in scientific knowledge never meet universal acclaim.
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Old 05-05-20, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
hear ya man. Not to mention keeping your body in shape to live longer but then dealing with dementia
My 89 year old Dad has advanced dementia; it has been a long, steady descent into darkness and oblivion.

Not pretty.
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Old 05-05-20, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
hear ya man. Not to mention keeping your body in shape to live longer but then dealing with dementia
There's good research out there which says that being in a high state of physical fitness results in a 40% decrease in risk of Alzheimer's. 40% is a big number. There's also preliminary research indicating that some intestinal biomes make us much more resistant to Alzheimer's. That has to do with birth method, breast feeding, diet, and exercise. Fecal transplants may be in our future. Pig farmers are doing already that as a matter of course. But as it is said, "Hope is the fatal flaw."
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Old 05-05-20, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
My 89 year old Dad has advanced dementia; it has been a long, steady descent into darkness and oblivion.

Not pretty.
Starting early is scary.
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Old 05-05-20, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
Starting early is scary.
I agree. Either way, however, it is not a journey that I wish to undertake.
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Old 05-05-20, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
....................https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/fu....061607.220533.................................

From above ^^^^^


" ....... The large increase in life expectancy observed during the last century was achieved without much increase in our understanding of the ultimate causes of aging and age-related diseases. Although lifestyle changes and the taming of age-related disease are likely to continue increasing human life span (see Figure 1), it remains an intriguing possibility that a major increase in life expectancy could be achieved through an understanding and manipulation of the basic principles governing the progressive loss of function and fitness that accompanies aging...... "


Wife's Aunt died Monday far later than had she not received the "miracle drugs" that kept typical aging issues at bay but NOT CURED!!!


My MOTHER died far later than had she not received the "miracle drugs" that kept typical aging issues at bay but NOT CURED!!!


Both were ACTIVE as their ages increased with tests performed indicating health issues arising that were addressed with DRUGS resulting in reducing the issues but causing others as often times DRUGS will do. More decline = more drugs = more side effects = living a CRAPPY longer life.


NOT IN MY SCRIPT as I age. MY FINAL PAGE HAS BEEN WRITTEN and only thing needed is action when I SAY SO.
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Old 05-06-20, 11:25 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by OldTryGuy View Post
From above ^^^^^


" ....... The large increase in life expectancy observed during the last century was achieved without much increase in our understanding of the ultimate causes of aging and age-related diseases. Although lifestyle changes and the taming of age-related disease are likely to continue increasing human life span (see Figure 1), it remains an intriguing possibility that a major increase in life expectancy could be achieved through an understanding and manipulation of the basic principles governing the progressive loss of function and fitness that accompanies aging...... "


Wife's Aunt died Monday far later than had she not received the "miracle drugs" that kept typical aging issues at bay but NOT CURED!!!


My MOTHER died far later than had she not received the "miracle drugs" that kept typical aging issues at bay but NOT CURED!!!


Both were ACTIVE as their ages increased with tests performed indicating health issues arising that were addressed with DRUGS resulting in reducing the issues but causing others as often times DRUGS will do. More decline = more drugs = more side effects = living a CRAPPY longer life.


NOT IN MY SCRIPT as I age. MY FINAL PAGE HAS BEEN WRITTEN and only thing needed is action when I SAY SO.
Many people agree with you:


About 65% of those were gun suicides, so easy. A friend with cancer did it by refusing food. Another friend with ALS used a device built by an engineer friend of mine when he only had one finger that still worked. I'm using some fairly well-known life extension aids: organic Med diet, lots of exercise, and some supplements which seem to help my staying active. I take a couple medications which improve the quality of my life, which is the whole idea, though they may also extend my life span. No, none of those things cure the basic malady, which is old age. I know there are some people who'd rather kill themselves than get older but I haven't met any, though I knew several women in my 20s who said they'd rather kill themselves than be 30, but AFAIK they didn't.

Anyone remember who was elected president in 2000? Quite remarkable. Note the much higher numbers of males. Too much pressure in our competitive society. Meditate more, worry less, live longer - the most constructive thing one can actually do.
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Old 06-19-20, 12:14 PM
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At almost 81 years old, I zoom regularly with a bunch of high school graduates from my class. They all look great. A bunch died along the way, but those that have survived into their 80s are active doing things look good and some still working. I kind of think those who make it past 80 are somehow different than those who died in their 70s and 60s.
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Old 06-19-20, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
About 65% of those were gun suicides, so easy.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I find your statements somewhat judgemental as in you can't see suicide as a legitimate option. I'm of the opinion if need be, and I can, it will be to choose my time to exit. I have older, twin sisters, both suffered from Alzheimer 's. One has already passed away after many years of suffering. The other sister is in advanced stages now and in a facility. Because of Covid, I haven't been able to see her for months. I will not put my wife through this.
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