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TDF halted 10 minutes after serious crash-UK Mail

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TDF halted 10 minutes after serious crash-UK Mail

Old 07-07-15, 03:16 PM
  #26  
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Ever heard of yellow flags?
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Old 07-07-15, 03:18 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by gaucho777 View Post
My first reaction was that it was a bad decision to neutralize the race. That crashing is part of racing and riders who don't stay the front of the peleton are putting themselves at more risk of crashing. But I've had a change of opinion because of the number of racers involved, the severity of the injuries, the fact that support vehicles and medical staff were caught behind the first crash. Further, because of the point (stage 2) in the overall race, the accidents had the potential to drastically change the competitive balance of the race. Prudhomme was in a position where he had to make a quick decision. If he waited until the climb, it would have been too late to neutralize. Sure there were some riders not involved int he crash who were upset, but I think he made the right decision to preserve the integrity of the overall race while the carnage was assessed.
integrity of the over all race...what do you mean by this?
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Old 07-07-15, 03:18 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
Ever heard of yellow flags?
yes. and your point is?
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Old 07-07-15, 03:20 PM
  #29  
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That Nascar races get stopped every time there is a crash. Happens like ten times per race. Could you find a worse example to try to make your point?
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Old 07-07-15, 03:23 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
That Nascar races get stopped every time there is a crash. Happens like ten times per race. Could you find a worse example to try to make your point?
they DON'T stop the race. the laps still count and the race continues. maybe you need to educate yourself on what a yellow flag signifies.
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Old 07-07-15, 03:26 PM
  #31  
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The race 'continues' but you have to go slow and are not allowed to overtake anyone. Not really racing is it? The ones who crashed are allowed to go back and rejoin the pack too, if their car is capable. Plenty of car races have been fully stopped for minutes or even hours too.
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Old 07-07-15, 03:36 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by sgtdirt View Post
they DON'T stop the race. the laps still count and the race continues. maybe you need to educate yourself on what a yellow flag signifies.
The yellow flag signifies that the race is neutralized.
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Old 07-07-15, 03:39 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
The race 'continues' but you have to go slow and are not allowed to overtake anyone. Not really racing is it? The ones who crashed are allowed to go back and rejoin the pack too, if their car is capable. Plenty of car races have been fully stopped for minutes or even hours too.
this is because it is on a track in which they ride to a predetermined amount of times, unlike the TDF. they are not going in a loop so the crash danger is well behind the leaders or those NOT involved in the crash. so your point about a "Yellow Flag" does not apply to this situation.
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Old 07-07-15, 03:41 PM
  #34  
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I agree, but you are the one who decided to bring Nascar into the discussion and as I said before, I can't think of a worse example to try to support your rather weak point.
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Old 07-07-15, 03:43 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by sgtdirt View Post
integrity of the over all race...what do you mean by this?
The yellow jersey and 20+ riders were involved in the first crash, then a second crash not caught on camera. I don't know how many of the contenders were caught in the second crash, but you had a situation where a large percentage of the peleton was stuck on the road without mechanical or medical support. If the race hadn't been neutralized, it's possible a portion of the overall contenders could have lost minutes (4? 5? 10 minutes?) on stage 2. In today's era, that might have effectively ended their chances for an overall win. Many people feel last year's race was not as compelling once Froome and Contador had to withdraw after their crashes, and I think Prudhomme wanted to avoid a situation where multiple favorites were out of contention as a result of these mass crashes.
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Old 07-07-15, 03:47 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
I agree, but you are the one who decided to bring Nascar into the discussion and as I said before, I can't think of a worse example to try to support your rather weak point.
do they stop the race in cyclocross/velodrome/BMX?
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Old 07-07-15, 03:48 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by gaucho777 View Post
The yellow jersey and 20+ riders were involved in the first crash, then a second crash not caught on camera. I don't know how many of the contenders were caught in the second crash, but you had a situation where a large percentage of the peleton was stuck on the road without mechanical or medical support. If the race hadn't been neutralized, it's possible a portion of the overall contenders could have lost minutes (4? 5? 10 minutes?) on stage 2. In today's era, that might have effectively ended their chances for an overall win. Many people feel last year's race was not as compelling once Froome and Contador had to withdraw after their crashes, and I think Prudhomme wanted to avoid a situation where multiple favorites were out of contention as a result of these mass crashes.
so, like i said before...it boils down to MONEY.
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Old 07-07-15, 04:10 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by sgtdirt View Post
Well that did happen on the last lap...
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Old 07-07-15, 08:12 PM
  #39  
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Football, baseball, basketball, hockey -- they get no delays for medical services. Why are professional cyclists so pampered?
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Old 07-07-15, 11:20 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Athens80 View Post
Football, baseball, basketball, hockey -- they get no delays for medical services. Why are professional cyclists so pampered?
Totally different sports. In football etc, the game takes place in one place, players get injured in ones or twos, there's no chance of medical services being overwhelmed. If 40 football players ever got injured in one play, I expect you'd see the game delayed for a while.

As for pampering, you must consider yourself a pretty tough guy. Try this. Get yourself thrown down the highway at 40 mph, leave several square inches of skin on the pavement, dislocate your shoulder or fracture a couple of vertebrae, get a concussion, then get on a bike and ride 30 miles at 30 mph.
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Old 07-08-15, 09:16 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Athens80 View Post
Football, baseball, basketball, hockey -- they get no delays for medical services. Why are professional cyclists so pampered?
Really, the game isn't stopped until the injured player is removed from the field?
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Old 07-08-15, 09:18 AM
  #42  
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They will stop baseball for rain
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Old 07-08-15, 09:22 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Gyro View Post
Really, the game isn't stopped until the injured player is removed from the field?
He was joking. All sports have stoppages for injuries. Except maybe golf...
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Old 07-08-15, 08:47 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by jyl View Post
Totally different sports. In football etc, the game takes place in one place, players get injured in ones or twos, there's no chance of medical services being overwhelmed. If 40 football players ever got injured in one play, I expect you'd see the game delayed for a while.

As for pampering, you must consider yourself a pretty tough guy. Try this. Get yourself thrown down the highway at 40 mph, leave several square inches of skin on the pavement, dislocate your shoulder or fracture a couple of vertebrae, get a concussion, then get on a bike and ride 30 miles at 30 mph.
oh, i don't know..ask Peyton Manning how is neck feels. most NFL players play hurt as do NBA, NHL and most of the contact sports.

these athletes are pampered because they are allowed to bend or break rules all because sponsors NEED them in the race. no racer, no gigantic logo on tv.
the racer gets a flat, he is allowed to draft on his team car for...mmm... an undetermined time or until a judge says he must pass. he is clearly breaking the rules but since he is a high profile rider, he gets pampered with a pass on the rules.
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Old 07-08-15, 09:58 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by sgtdirt View Post
oh, i don't know..ask Peyton Manning how is neck feels. most NFL players play hurt as do NBA, NHL and most of the contact sports.

these athletes are pampered because they are allowed to bend or break rules all because sponsors NEED them in the race. no racer, no gigantic logo on tv.
the racer gets a flat, he is allowed to draft on his team car for...mmm... an undetermined time or until a judge says he must pass. he is clearly breaking the rules but since he is a high profile rider, he gets pampered with a pass on the rules.
The amorphous nature of pro cycling rules is an interesting issue. The sport has a long tradition that seems to have given rise to a complex web of written rules, discretion and inconsistency in enforcing them, and unwritten rules. However, that is true to some extent in pretty much every sport. Many pro football infractions are not caught or penalized, there are often bad calls or missed calls that change the outcome of games, and the Patriots got away with under inflating balls for a long time.

The inconsistency in cycling is probably worse than the major US sports because of how fragmented the sport is. It isn't a single league with centralized officiating, it is dozens of races scattered across many countries. The commissaires for the Tour de France are different from the commissaires for the Giro, the race director is different, etc. The central organization (the UCI) is rather weak.

Another factor is that a bike race is a rolling event with over a hundred riders and dozens of team cars spread over miles of road. Much of the action takes place outside of the view of the race officials, even in the TV era. So I think a slightly relaxed approach to things has developed.

And tell me the last time Peyton Manning played for three hours with a dislocated shoulder, bloody open wounds, fractured vertebrae. During a game, the guy spends as much time sitting down as he does standing up.
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Old 07-09-15, 04:45 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
He was joking. All sports have stoppages for injuries.
Really? I hadn't noticed. I stay very busy watching and rewatching my video library of fascinating racing during NASCAR caution laps. I love it when they're just about to get to a left turn. My favorite's from 2005. 22 yellow flags in one race. Non-stop action, let me tell you! And that's not all. My extra special collection I call Red Flag Racing. Pro cycling cannot hope to keep up with the furious competition that goes on during Red Flag laps. Not if cycling stops just to catch up for injuries. Medical schmedical. Get on with the racing!
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Old 07-09-15, 06:07 AM
  #47  
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Best part of golf is when it stops due to lightning in the course area.
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Old 07-09-15, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
Best part of golf is when it stops due to lightning in the course area.
Yeah what's that about? They should play until someone gets struck!
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Old 07-09-15, 09:36 AM
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They will stop baseball for rain
Indy & NASCAR too, F1 they change to rain tires.
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Old 07-09-15, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sgtdirt View Post
because it was on the last lap - no need to. And yes - races are often stopped when the helicopter or medical personnel are unavailable if racing was immediately resumed or not stopped.

Do TdF riders have GPS tracking such that theoretically they could put all riders in exact positions relative to others at the time of the crash (or shortly before or after)? Doing so would alleviate the "unfairness" of neutralizing.
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