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Froome/Wiggins

Old 07-10-15, 06:38 PM
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bassogap
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Froome/Wiggins

I have to admit, it was never clear to me why Wiggo didn't ride the TdeF the year after he won....How often is a former champion not asked to come back? Is it just because he and Froome couldn't get along? If that's all it was, it really makes it hard to respect them as great champions...
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Old 07-10-15, 06:47 PM
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From what little I actually know it seemd as if Wiggo wasn't a natural leader & Froome was a better hope for the future of the team.
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Old 07-10-15, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Belly View Post
From what little I actually know it seemd as if Wiggo wasn't a natural leader & Froome was a better hope for the future of the team.
Yep, Wiggo should have been riding for Froome on that 2012 Tour, as Froome was the better GC rider. Wiggo would not have won that TdF without Froome waiting and towing him up the mountains on critical climbs. He was a wheelsucker all the way up the mountains.
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Old 07-10-15, 08:22 PM
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Wiggins is not a good domestique. When he is really focused on something, he kills it; when he is not, he often underwhelms.
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Old 07-11-15, 03:08 AM
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Wiggins didn't deal well with the hype and publicity surrounding his TdF win and Olympic TT Gold on home turf. I think he just decided 'I've achieved a dream but doing it again would be a nightmare'.

Froome is a different type and handles himself off the bike a lot better.

Different spokes for different folks.

Last edited by Caretaker; 07-11-15 at 03:14 AM.
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Old 07-11-15, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
Yep, Wiggo should have been riding for Froome on that 2012 Tour, as Froome was the better GC rider. Wiggo would not have won that TdF without Froome waiting and towing him up the mountains on critical climbs. He was a wheelsucker all the way up the mountains.
interesting....I didn't remember that from that year.....I like froome, but he lacks panache...
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Old 07-11-15, 09:33 AM
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I know this doesn't add to the conversation but Phil referred to Froome as a "big 'ole praying mantis" yesterday. I had to laugh!
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Old 07-11-15, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bassogap View Post
interesting....I didn't remember that from that year.....I like froome, but he lacks panache...
Go watch videos of the 2012 Tour again, you'll agree with me that Froome was a better GC rider than Wiggins, and that Wiggins would have cracked had Froome not waited and towed him up on critical climbs. You could see Froome becoming more and more frustrated that he could not ride away, as he had instructions to always wait for Wiggins. Yeah, maybe Froome is boring, ungainly on the bike or whatever; but he is a heck of a climber. He just spins and spins up mountain climbs. He is my pick for the overall win this Tour. He seems to be in excellent form, and he is not making mistakes.

Last edited by Jed19; 07-11-15 at 09:39 AM.
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Old 07-11-15, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by DLBroox View Post
I know this doesn't add to the conversation but Phil referred to Froome as a "big 'ole praying mantis" yesterday. I had to laugh!
He has an unusual form, with his elbows sticking out amongst other ungainly forms.
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Old 07-11-15, 11:09 AM
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Even LA and Contador rode in the same Tour while on the same team. LA did everything he could to screw over AC, but they still rode together. Don't know why Sky/Froome get a pass on blatantly screwing over Wiggins. LA has more haters, I guess...but to me, Froome is no saint. Oh, and he's on just as much stuff (or more) as LA.
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Old 07-11-15, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
Go watch videos of the 2012 Tour again, you'll agree with me that Froome was a better GC rider than Wiggins, and that Wiggins would have cracked had Froome not waited and towed him up on critical climbs. You could see Froome becoming more and more frustrated that he could not ride away, as he had instructions to always wait for Wiggins. Yeah, maybe Froome is boring, ungainly on the bike or whatever; but he is a heck of a climber. He just spins and spins up mountain climbs. He is my pick for the overall win this Tour. He seems to be in excellent form, and he is not making mistakes.
Froome was the better climber but Wiggins was the better time trialist. Wiggins was the team leader and short of a GC collapse it was the duty of every Sky rider in 2012 to help him win. The best rider doesn't always win the TdF, it's a combination of individual and team effort.
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Old 07-11-15, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
Froome was the better climber but Wiggins was the better time trialist. Wiggins was the team leader and short of a GC collapse it was the duty of every Sky rider in 2012 to help him win. The best rider doesn't always win the TdF, it's a combination of individual and team effort.
True, but when you fudge to put together a team, then it is obvious for all to see. Brailsford's goal at all cost was to have the first englishman to win the Tour.The only problem was that he had to hold back a better GC cyclist to enable Wiggins to win that 2012 tour. Kinda like when Bruyneel was trying to hold back Contador for Armstrong, except Alberto was gonna have none of it. He was the better GC cyclist in that tour, but Bruyneel and armstrong were trying to scam their way to the top.

And how many ITTs as compared to climbing was on that tour? One single ITT, which did not make a rat's a&& difference in the final result.

Brailsford's goal was to get Wiggins to win at all cost, but he was not the best GC cyclist on that team, and that was why Sky imploded after that tour and Wiggins had to walk. When the chips were down, Brailsford went for the money and the better GC rider and Sir Wiggo was booted off Sky. Those are the facts.
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Old 07-11-15, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
Froome was the better climber but Wiggins was the better time trialist. Wiggins was the team leader and short of a GC collapse it was the duty of every Sky rider in 2012 to help him win. The best rider doesn't always win the TdF, it's a combination of individual and team effort.
And Sky would still have won that Tour with Froome. He lost to Wiggins by 3' 21", which was much more than the time Froome spent waiting for him or towing him up. We all could see the frustration and exasperation on Froome's face each time he had to wait for Wiggins.
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Old 07-11-15, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
True, but when you fudge to put together a team, then it is obvious for all to see. Brailsford's goal at all cost was to have the first englishman to win the Tour.The only problem was that he had to hold back a better GC cyclist to enable Wiggins to win that 2012 tour. Kinda like when Bruyneel was trying to hold back Contador for Armstrong, except Alberto was gonna have none of it. He was the better GC cyclist in that tour, but Bruyneel and armstrong were trying to scam their way to the top.

And how many ITTs as compared to climbing was on that tour? One single ITT, which did not make a rat's a&& difference in the final result.
Brailsford's goal was to get Wiggins to win at all cost, but he was not the best GC cyclist on that team, and that was why Sky imploded after that tour and Wiggins had to walk. When the chips were down, Brailsford went for the money and the better GC rider and Sir Wiggo was booted off Sky. Those are the facts.
Two, both of which Wiggins won, plus he was second to Cancellara in the short prologue.

'Brailsford's goal was to get Wiggins to win at all cost'

That's not a 'fact' that's just your opinion.
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Old 07-11-15, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
Two, both of which Wiggins won, plus he was second to Cancellara in the short prologue.

'Brailsford's goal was to get Wiggins to win at all cost'

That's not a 'fact' that's just your opinion.
Then, why was Froome held back for Wiggins on about three different stages? I remember feeling horrible that the winner of a prestigious race like the Tour was gonna be a "wheel sucker."
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Old 07-12-15, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
Then, why was Froome held back for Wiggins on about three different stages? I remember feeling horrible that the winner of a prestigious race like the Tour was gonna be a "wheel sucker."
Because he was the team leader in yellow.
Sky averaged the ability of their two top riders and got a one two in Paris. May have made it a less exciting race but that's what happens when the two top riders are on the same team.

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Old 07-12-15, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
Yep, Wiggo should have been riding for Froome on that 2012 Tour, as Froome was the better GC rider. Wiggo would not have won that TdF without Froome waiting and towing him up the mountains on critical climbs. He was a wheelsucker all the way up the mountains.
I take it you're not Wiggins' greatest fan.

The facts are that the team and their tactics were set up to support Wiggins. That was Froome's role in the team and he signed up for it and did it well, if a little bit "precious" at times.

Sky's tactics and choice of Wiggins as leader were proved right at the time, everything else is just opinion/gossip after the event.

Froome could have/would have/should have - Wiggins did!
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Old 07-12-15, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Gerryattrick View Post
I take it you're not Wiggins' greatest fan.

The facts are that the team and their tactics were set up to support Wiggins. That was Froome's role in the team and he signed up for it and did it well, if a little bit "precious" at times.

Sky's tactics and choice of Wiggins as leader were proved right at the time, everything else is just opinion/gossip after the event.

Froome could have/would have/should have - Wiggins did!
Sure, the team was set up for Wiggins to be the leader, but it was shameful that the Tour's champ had to be a wheelsucker .

Another thing that really got to me was the chutzpah Wiggins displayed when he held up Froome's share of the winning bonus for a while. Can you imagine the balls to withhold the money from a guy who saved your bacon?

I don't dislike Wiggins, and I am indifferent about Froome; but FAIR is FAIR!
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Old 07-12-15, 05:35 PM
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Wiggins isn't a natural roadie, he's more of a track pursuit/ time trial guy so it's amazing he could make the transition to a Grand Tour. Being able to win Olympic track golds, and Grand Tours is pretty amazing. Wiggins was not the best climber, but he was competitive and he won a tour where time trailing was important. It set up well for him, but other tours wouldn't. I doubt that any of the GC contenders could hope to come close to winning on the track, so I see Wiggins as one of they greatest all round cyclists ever because he competed and won in so many different races.

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Old 07-13-15, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by nun View Post
Wiggins isn't a natural roadie, he's more of a track pursuit/ time trial guy so it's amazing he could make the transition to a Grand Tour. Being able to win Olympic track golds, and Grand Tours is pretty amazing. Wiggins was not the best climber, but he was competitive and he won a tour where time trailing was important. It set up well for him, but other tours wouldn't. I doubt that any of the GC contenders could hope to come close to winning on the track, so I see Wiggins as one of they greatest all round cyclists ever because he competed and won in so many different races.
+1

I thought that virtually all GT winners are "wheel suckers" for much of the race. That's what the team support is for.

Since when has fairness been factored into team selection. It's all about winning for those guys.

Froome was always going to be given his chance.
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