cthenn

Great thread, about as enlightening as the Armstrong threads.

EastCoastDHer

I know some blacks who ride. Some of them are very talented and actually should've won some local races, but the racism in the 70s, 80s and beyond didn't give them a fair chance. And the "whites only" attitude many (thankfully not all) road cyclists have never helps. I can't believe how many whites I used to try to talk to about cycling and they'd either act like I was 5 or just ignore me (it's funny to watch the look on their face after you ask them about their pedals "You run shimano or time?"). There seems to be far less behavior similar to that of a ******bag in dirt but from time to time I get a funny look. One shop I visited tried to explain to me what a bottom bracket was when I asked if they had my size, his attitude changed after I explained I was putting it on my race bike and had just rebuilt my fork and bled my 4 piston disc brakes. I hate to be such a jerk but sometimes you have to be blunt and let people know where you stand and who you really are.

Money is another factor. When I was managing a sporting goods store the majority of sales were low dollar items and usually footballs or basketballs. Why? What's the cost involved in basketball, a $90 pair of shoes and maybe $50 on a ball. $50 in cycling might get you a decent chain. Or maybe a tire on sale. Basketball courts are everywhere. The closest mountain is maybe 3 hours from me. The nature of the beast is what limits it. Basketball has a very low cost to participate compared to cycling. Same with football. Maybe $500-$1000 for all your gear. That much money invested in a bicycle doesn't get much. Consider this: The average DH fork alone is over $1200. So again, everything versus peanuts (on a good day).

Leinster

I don't want to dismiss your experience, but I've had similar situations in plenty of bike shops where the staff didn't know me. There's almost always a feeling out period where the shop tries to gauge you on the fred scale.

EastCoastDHer

I'm not buying it. As far as I'm concerned we're all part of the same race: humans. Feeling out shouldn't be a practice, it's not forensics. Customer comes in and asks for a product and you show it to them. Same as when I sold footwear, sure you ask a few basics but if someone comes in and asks for say a size 10 hiking boot you bring them to the hikers you stock in size 10, you don't try to explain what a boot is or how to tie it. Here's a story: 14 year old in jeans a white t shirt comes in and looks at leather jackets. He asks to try on a $1200 shearling bomber, so you comply whilst asking about the fit. He seems pretty keen on it and says he wants it. You ring him out and say "would you like some product care?" And he purchases it, excited. You remark "good choice, now you can protect your investment" and he responds "Yes, I've been saving all year and my grandma gave me some birthday money." Seems odd at first but people will always surprise you if you treat them just like everyone else, more importantly you treat them as you would expect and desire to be treated.

Kindaslow

Still a train wreck, but somewhat amusing, like someone falling on ice into a puddle...

sprince

I just don't buy that. I've known a lot of riders over the years who spend a butt load of cash on the latest, lightest, coordinated lycra, carbon thingies, most aero helmet, computers, etc. In street clothes, riding my 30 pound $65 touring bike I found on craig's list (what I ride most of the time), I'm still faster than 95% of them (the remaining 5% simply invest more time riding). You could argue that money is a factor for those people who can't afford a $50 bike and $50 to replace the chain and tires once a year, but for everyone else it's just a sorry excuse.

PepeM

We are talking competitive cycling here, not weekend warrioring. Would you say that getting into competitive cycling is as affordable as, say, getting into competitive basketball, which can be done simply by attending a high school with a team (of which there are many)?

sprince

Yes. But unfortunately it's not easilly accessible for much of the planet. Petar Sagan won a race on his sister's department store bike, but in Africa or the US the biggest problem might be finding a race within 500 miles, much less finding some kind of organized program.

corrado33

Both of you should look up the difference between fast and slow twitch muscles. "Fast twitch muscles" are the muscles (and energy sources) used when the muscle is only engaged for X seconds or less (I forget the number.) "Slow twitch muscles" are used when the muscle is engaged for longer. "Slow" muscles use a quickly depleteable energy source whereas the "fast" ones have a much more replenishable energy source.

I feel that in cycling more slow twitch muscles get used than running, but the majority is still fast twitch. Where as in running every step releases the other leg's muscles. I really don't know though. In running you see very thin distance runners. Distance is very aerobic. Where as in cycling you need the leg strength and the aerobic strength. I don't often see black people with massive legs and a very skinny upper body. But, that argument may be circular because generally that body type is reserved for cyclists.

If you REALLY want to know, go read the Exercise Science book. It gets boring really quick. (I hate bio.)

sprince

Nor do I see any cyclists with massive legs and skinny upper body. Maybe long track ice skating is what you had in mind? BTW you have the energy source argument backwards.

SpeshulEd 

Leinster

No seriously. Bike shop staff can be patronising to white ppl too. All the time. I can't speak to any specific incident you may have experienced, but I can't count the number of times I've asked a question about complex tech, or expensive equipment and been directed towards the bikes with Sora thumb shifters.

I partly agree with you on the money; it is an intimidatingly expensive sport. Except I see poor black and Latino and Asian kids driving around in souped up custom cars into which they've clearly ploughed 5-10 times the price of my CAAD10 and then some; so maybe it's as much about what your passion is. And maybe it's as much about what your friends are into.

jyl

Cycling is also a sport that requires or at least encourages you to have ready access to the open road and uncrowded, semi rural areas. Realistically, few road racers are training in the inner city, doing the stoplight grand prix.

makeitso5005

If you call Forstemann's upper body "skinny" then I dunno what to say...

https://gymmotivationandfitness.file...4/12/fcj4p.jpg

But there's so many times you have to facepalm in this thread emanating from Campag4Life. His whole obsession about "blacks" being the best jumpers yet he doesn't know that the jumping track and field events (long jump, high jump, triple jump) are dominated by "whites." In addition the best 2nd and 3rd ranked international basketball teams are composed solely of "whites." The fact that he can't understand that opportunity, money and cultural/social environment plays a big role in what sports young athletes choose to play amazes me... There's so much wrong in his posts and if you respond I'm sure he'll move the goalposts again to suit his attempts at insulting people.

colnago62

Larry Bird played some pretty good basketball... for a white guy.

SpeshulEd 

Take it easy, it was a joke.

Kindaslow

Sense of humor here is like that found in disc brake or helmet threads...

Campag4life

Finally somebody here with grasp. If you read the link I posted about time to fatigue of the Kenyian distance runners with their superior endurance, the article is pretty clear about their lack of physical strength. Their muscle strength threshold is low. Many junior high school girls can lift more weight. Leg strength over time is what separates cyclists.

Back to Greipel. Are there some black and white track sprinters on the planet that can outsprint his close to 2000w max efforts on the planet? I believe so. How about after racing 110 miles over hills...some steep? No. He is probably top 2 or 3 on the planet. He has unusual strength for his body mass as some top northern Europeans do. Kittel another northern European with unbelievable power also has this gift. Its the combination of strength, speed and endurance that gets it done as a top tour rider. Even he will likely never win the big race even with his unbelievable talent as a bike rider. A guy like Froome will win..who Greipel or Kittel can crush easily with their fast twitch. In fact you can pretty much tell this by looking at all three. Froome will drop Griepel in the mountains however. A balance of speed, strength and endurance wins the day.

BillyD

Campag4life, please leave this thread and do not post anymore for the duration. Thanks!

Dan333SP

So this is slightly tangential but I hope it brings a positive spin to the thread. This group operates out of the shop I ride with-

Richmond Cycling Corps

Basically, they run the bike shop as a non-profit to support the cycling corps, which also runs on donations from local businesses and individuals. They created a mountain bike racing team for a local inner city high school, and provide all the equipment/gear and even built a bike course on the school property. The team is actually now quite competitive in the state and the kids love it.

Point is- This little project solves 2 of the problems that are barriers to entry for a lot of inner city youth athletes that would otherwise end up playing basketball or the like. It removes the entry cost, because everything is loaned to them while they're training/racing with the team, and it builds a network of their peers with similar interests.

I think the peer network is one of the keys to all of this. If all your friends play basketball, why would you want to even try cycling, if you had the money? If a few of your friends are saying, "Hey, bombing down hills on these bikes is awesome! Try it!", then maybe you will give it a shot and stick with it when you realize how fun competing is.

seypat

To follow up on Dan333SP's post, Richmond also has this:

The First Tee of Richmond and Chesterfield | Golf Development & After School Activities for Kids & Teens in Richmond Virginia

The point being that if a person does not have access, they won't take up the endeavor. Cycling and golf both have high start up costs especially for kids when the equipment may only be useful for 1 season, if that long.

They also have this event highly marketed as a family event and a way to try out cycling:

https://www.sportsbackers.org/events/moonlight-ride/

Closed course, casual atmosphere, and a great way to get off the couch/get exercise and have fun with the whole family.

mawashi

Jamaican bob sled anyone? It's geographical, cultural, financial issues that account for why there are not that many African cyclist. In a country where having a pair of soccer boots a luxury, imagine having the funds to buy a racing bike to train.

There are just too many things going against Africans in cycling as it is a very gear oriented sport. Which is why you won't find many Africans in sports like F1, cycling, sailing, winter sports etc etc. If given the opportunity and resources of a typical European, American or Asian kid, I'm sure you'll find more African athletes in all sorts of sports.

gpsblake

Following up, running is not the same as cycling. Take a look at [strike]Lance Armstrong[/strike] and ignore what you think of him. He was the top cyclist in the world, then attempted to become a world class marathoner. His best marathon was a 2:46, which is really really good, but also not even close to being competitive at a top level, he would be 20 minutes SLOWER then the women's top marathoners.

Dubbayoo

There aren't more of us riding largely because of opportunity. The only thing it takes for a Kenyan to start running is a door to walk thru to get outside. Cycling is very expensive. Even as an American I only knew one kid that biked seriously; he quit football to race BMX and we all thought that was weird. Now he's late 40's and owns a bike shop in North Georgia. You play what your friends play.

texaspandj

This could easily be a contentious thread.
However instead of "Why African athletes haven't dominated our sport?" It should ask "Why haven't African athletes dominated cycling sport". That " our " insinuates it's only a north American, European and other continents sport.
The only sport that Africans have historically dominated is distance running. I suspect environment, diet, geography(altitude ), spirit/ambition,and perhaps genetics(low weight) play a role.
Most people are posting as if the thread included Americans specifically of African descent.
Had it asked "Why haven't Americans of African descent or American Africans (african americans) dominated cycling since they have demonstrated the ability to dominate every major sport that requires athleticism?" Then I would have responded with the same answer : I suspect environment, diet, geography (location), spirit/ambition, and perhaps genetics (physique) play a significant role in what sports "they" dominate. Later.

Sidenote : Perhaps another way (less contentious) of asking is "Why is cycling mostly dominated by the Europeans?" (Spoiler alert same reasons.) HAH.