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First "motorized doping" found in top level racing

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First "motorized doping" found in top level racing

Old 02-16-16, 11:31 PM
  #51  
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The ASO, UCI, and others are getting pretty worked up about motor doping. I think top pro level racing will stamp out the attempts at this pretty effectively. The existing motors in the seat tube are not hard to detect. There are proposals around for motors hidden in other places, but I am quite convinced, after some study, that while they could work in theory, they can't work without cranes and comments that look quite different from standard race bicycles.

In amateur racing and club rides, there won't be checks and thus motors can and probably will be used more.
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Old 02-18-16, 06:43 PM
  #52  
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People want a fast bike without putting the work out to make it fast will buy them .

the racer-athlete still will want that 14 pound bike . so adding the 8 pound motor and battery wont be the way.
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Old 03-07-16, 11:25 PM
  #53  
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UCI will seek lifetime ban and EUR 50K penalty.

I think that's too harsh. I doubt it will be that severe. Her career is over anyway.
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Old 03-08-16, 01:35 AM
  #54  
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Here are a couple of articles in English.
UCI may seek lifetime suspension in motor cheating case - VeloNews.com
Clever Ways to Catch a Pro Cyclist Cheating With a Hidden Motor | WIRED

Originally Posted by jyl View Post
UCI will seek lifetime ban and EUR 50K penalty.

I think that's too harsh. I doubt it will be that severe. Her career is over anyway.
Hopefully a lot more details will be made public after the hearing next week. The UCI must think they have a strong case for more than a bike being parked in the pits if they are going for such harsh penalties. Of course, this could also be intimidation and bluffing at this point.

If Femke is a Cat 5 rider trying to race with the pros, then her career would have been over before it began.
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Old 03-08-16, 11:52 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by jyl View Post
UCI will seek lifetime ban and EUR 50K penalty.

I think that's too harsh. I doubt it will be that severe. Her career is over anyway.
I doubt that the CAS would uphold it.
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Old 03-09-16, 09:58 PM
  #56  
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Femke's career is probably over no matter what; she's damaged goods, no sponsor will touch her.

I'd be more concerned that the UCI might think that she, and she alone, should be sanctioned. You've got to reckon her coach, or her mechanic, or the guy who "she sold the bike to" are equally if not more culpable, and while her friend probably isn't within their power to go after, thy can definitely bar her support staff from involvement in UCI-sanctioned events.
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Old 03-09-16, 10:33 PM
  #57  
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Yes, if they only go after Femke, that will be a disappointment.

By the way, while I like seeing the UCI checking so many bikes, I don't think their magnetometer-based device is good enough. A motor without a permanent magnet will not be detected. I think they should use metal detectors, some are very narrowly focused, because if you detect metal in an inch-long section of carbon frame or wheel where there shouldn't be a metal component, that's a clue that something is amiss.
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Old 03-10-16, 09:05 PM
  #58  
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A motorized road bike test ride. https://youtu.be/Wv5F5N6mFf0
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Old 03-10-16, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jyl View Post
Yes, if they only go after Femke, that will be a disappointment.

By the way, while I like seeing the UCI checking so many bikes, I don't think their magnetometer-based device is good enough. A motor without a permanent magnet will not be detected. I think they should use metal detectors, some are very narrowly focused, because if you detect metal in an inch-long section of carbon frame or wheel where there shouldn't be a metal component, that's a clue that something is amiss.
Most of my bikes still have a lot of metal in them That may be rare in the pro ranks. However, it wouldn't be illegal to have a steel, aluminum, titanium, or mixed material bicycle, especially at the lower level events.

What they likely need to do short of fluoroscopy is a multi-faceted test. IR (heat), magnetic, induction, and metal detection.

No doubt the next generation of motor assist bikes will be smarter. For example, one could build a motor into an oversized bottom bracket or oversized hub shell. Maybe not a lot of watts, but say an elite racer got a 50W boost, it could certainly make a huge difference to their performance.
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Old 03-11-16, 01:56 AM
  #60  
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You figure that pro bike frames are all carbon fiber, and most of the components are too. Of course there will be metal in, say, the derailleur, but a point focused metal detector can be used to avoid the few bits of metal.

I think that it will be possible to hide very small motors in components that are normally metal-containing, and thus fool a metal detector - bottom bracket, rear hub. In a world where even an extra 20 watts can make a difference if sustained for half an hour, even a small motor could be "useful".
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Old 03-11-16, 08:26 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by jyl View Post
UCI will seek lifetime ban and EUR 50K penalty.
kind of amusing - if you were banned for life, why (or how?) would you ever pay the fine? perhaps as a condition for reinstatement?
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Old 03-11-16, 08:47 AM
  #62  
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I vote for hacksaws as a cheap, easy, and 100% foolproof way to detect hidden motors...

...or maybe an X-ray machine like those used in airports' check-in lines, although that will most certainly overshoot the simplicity and cost of the hacksaw solution.
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Old 03-11-16, 10:17 AM
  #63  
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They had been using x-ray machines before they developed their compact tablet tester. Clever Ways to Catch a Pro Cyclist Cheating With a Hidden Motor | WIRED
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Old 03-11-16, 11:21 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by dbf73 View Post
kind of amusing - if you were banned for life, why (or how?) would you ever pay the fine? perhaps as a condition for reinstatement?
The UCI is based in Switzerland----maybe they can sue to collect over there.
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Old 03-14-16, 05:22 PM
  #65  
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"The acquittal is impossible, that bike was in my pit zone." Quote from her when she dropped the case, and gave up her license, today .
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Old 03-14-16, 05:47 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Cptimagine View Post
"The acquittal is impossible, that bike was in my pit zone." Quote from her when she dropped the case, and gave up her license, today .
Interesting. The UCI still hasn't determined a "punishment". Time & Monetary fine.

I assume this means that Femke has chosen to permanently withdraw from racing, and she might have troubles getting sponsors anyway.
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Old 03-14-16, 06:09 PM
  #67  
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UCI was going for $50.000 Swiss and lifetime ban . She quit racing as of today, the day before facing the UCI hearing . She and her advisors saw an unwinnable situation . UCI to their credit, eliminated any grey areas, "in the event or on the margins" . Perhaps sanctions against her trade and national teams, influenced the cessation ???
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Old 03-21-16, 09:53 AM
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Here's an interesting overview of motorized doping Group
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Old 06-04-16, 02:28 AM
  #69  
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Hi all,
Something caught my eye at the Giro, stage 20, 11.3km to go.

Nibali loses Chaves and attacks to go over the big climb. At 11.3km to go, now solo Nibali takes a water bottle from the side of the road. Doesn't seem to have any water in it! You can tell. He then puts the bottle in is holder and immediately the bike seems to take an un-natural acceleration up hill! without pedalling!

I have heard batteries can be hidden in bottles. He then goes all the way to the top without taking any of the water and ditches the bottle over the top. Doesnt seem to be a constant acceleration all the way to the top but could definitely be a key burst of speed at the right time!! I really hope I am wrong with this, for cycling's sake - but it's worth a look!! Please somebody tell me my eyes are deceiving me!
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Old 06-04-16, 04:09 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by pownie View Post
At 11.3km to go, now solo Nibali takes a water bottle from the side of the road. Doesn't seem to have any water in it! You can tell.
How can you tell what's inside the bottle? Batteries or water?
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Old 06-04-16, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by pownie View Post
Hi all,
Something caught my eye at the Giro, stage 20, 11.3km to go.

.... At 11.3km to go, now solo Nibali takes a water bottle from the side of the road. Doesn't seem to have any water in it! You can tell. He then puts the bottle in is holder and immediately the bike seems to take an un-natural acceleration up hill! without pedalling!

I have heard batteries can be hidden in bottles. He then goes all the way to the top without taking any of the water and ditches the bottle over the top. Doesnt seem to be a constant acceleration all the way to the top but could definitely be a key burst of speed at the right time!......
If that is what happened Nibali has refined his skills from holding on to the team car for a burst of speed. I will say prior to the two last mountain stages he seemed to be dead in the water and I was thinking he was playing possum and waiting for his opportunity to pounce.
I don't know the mechanics of powering a motor but I would imagine the battery would have to be plugged in to the motor and that would require more than putting the water bottle into the cage. Besides I believe they have been checking the bikes for motors after the stage but hey nothing would surprise me at this point.
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Old 06-04-16, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
How can you tell what's inside the bottle? Batteries or water?
If you watch it you can tell theres hardly anything in the bottle if any at all. And if there is he wouldn't carry it to the top without taking any and then ditch at the top before the decent.

I hope I'm wrong, but it wouldnt surprise me, in fact nothing would surprise me with Astana.

Yeah I heard they are checking the bikes also - thing is who is checking them!? a lot of things going on at the finish and a lot of riders change bikes mid ride. THe bottle can have a battery at the bottom where it could click into the motor/ hidden under cage fittings.
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Old 06-04-16, 07:32 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by pownie View Post
If you watch it you can tell theres hardly anything in the bottle if any at all. And if there is he wouldn't carry it to the top without taking any and then ditch at the top before the decent.
Are you aware lithium batteries are about 3x as heavy as water? If it looked like there wasn't anything in the bottle it wouldn't be much good as an energy source.

Keep trying...
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Old 06-04-16, 07:45 PM
  #74  
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like I say! I hope im wrong. I don't want to see anyone cheating, and don't like suggesting it either without solid evidence, but even the commentary noted that there looked like a gear problem. I think it was literally a minute or 2minutes max.

If someone can look at it, and then say otherwise then fair enough. Fair point with the battery, but we are talking multi-million $ budgets here.
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Old 06-04-16, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by pownie View Post
like I say! I hope im wrong. I don't want to see anyone cheating, and don't like suggesting it either without solid evidence, but even the commentary noted that there looked like a gear problem. I think it was literally a minute or 2minutes max.

If someone can look at it, and then say otherwise then fair enough. Fair point with the battery, but we are talking multi-million $ budgets here.
Why would anyone take a 2nd look? You've provided zero evidence for even faint suspicion.
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