First "motorized doping" found in top level racing
#51
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,639
Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997
Mentioned: 146 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times
in
31 Posts
The ASO, UCI, and others are getting pretty worked up about motor doping. I think top pro level racing will stamp out the attempts at this pretty effectively. The existing motors in the seat tube are not hard to detect. There are proposals around for motors hidden in other places, but I am quite convinced, after some study, that while they could work in theory, they can't work without cranes and comments that look quite different from standard race bicycles.
In amateur racing and club rides, there won't be checks and thus motors can and probably will be used more.
In amateur racing and club rides, there won't be checks and thus motors can and probably will be used more.
#52
Banned
People want a fast bike without putting the work out to make it fast will buy them .
the racer-athlete still will want that 14 pound bike . so adding the 8 pound motor and battery wont be the way.
the racer-athlete still will want that 14 pound bike . so adding the 8 pound motor and battery wont be the way.
#53
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,639
Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997
Mentioned: 146 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times
in
31 Posts
UCI will seek lifetime ban and EUR 50K penalty.
I think that's too harsh. I doubt it will be that severe. Her career is over anyway.
I think that's too harsh. I doubt it will be that severe. Her career is over anyway.
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18353 Post(s)
Liked 4,502 Times
in
3,346 Posts
Here are a couple of articles in English.
UCI may seek lifetime suspension in motor cheating case - VeloNews.com
Clever Ways to Catch a Pro Cyclist Cheating With a Hidden Motor | WIRED
Hopefully a lot more details will be made public after the hearing next week. The UCI must think they have a strong case for more than a bike being parked in the pits if they are going for such harsh penalties. Of course, this could also be intimidation and bluffing at this point.
If Femke is a Cat 5 rider trying to race with the pros, then her career would have been over before it began.
UCI may seek lifetime suspension in motor cheating case - VeloNews.com
Clever Ways to Catch a Pro Cyclist Cheating With a Hidden Motor | WIRED
If Femke is a Cat 5 rider trying to race with the pros, then her career would have been over before it began.
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: location location
Posts: 3,035
Bikes: MBK Super Mirage 1991, CAAD10, Yuba Mundo Lux, and a Cannondale Criterium Single Speed
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 297 Times
in
207 Posts
Femke's career is probably over no matter what; she's damaged goods, no sponsor will touch her.
I'd be more concerned that the UCI might think that she, and she alone, should be sanctioned. You've got to reckon her coach, or her mechanic, or the guy who "she sold the bike to" are equally if not more culpable, and while her friend probably isn't within their power to go after, thy can definitely bar her support staff from involvement in UCI-sanctioned events.
I'd be more concerned that the UCI might think that she, and she alone, should be sanctioned. You've got to reckon her coach, or her mechanic, or the guy who "she sold the bike to" are equally if not more culpable, and while her friend probably isn't within their power to go after, thy can definitely bar her support staff from involvement in UCI-sanctioned events.
#57
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,639
Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997
Mentioned: 146 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times
in
31 Posts
Yes, if they only go after Femke, that will be a disappointment.
By the way, while I like seeing the UCI checking so many bikes, I don't think their magnetometer-based device is good enough. A motor without a permanent magnet will not be detected. I think they should use metal detectors, some are very narrowly focused, because if you detect metal in an inch-long section of carbon frame or wheel where there shouldn't be a metal component, that's a clue that something is amiss.
By the way, while I like seeing the UCI checking so many bikes, I don't think their magnetometer-based device is good enough. A motor without a permanent magnet will not be detected. I think they should use metal detectors, some are very narrowly focused, because if you detect metal in an inch-long section of carbon frame or wheel where there shouldn't be a metal component, that's a clue that something is amiss.
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: D'uh... I am a Cutter
Posts: 6,139
Bikes: '17 Access Old Turnpike Gravel bike, '14 Trek 1.1, '13 Cannondale CAAD 10, '98 CAD 2, R300
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1571 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times
in
9 Posts
A motorized road bike test ride. https://youtu.be/Wv5F5N6mFf0
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18353 Post(s)
Liked 4,502 Times
in
3,346 Posts
Yes, if they only go after Femke, that will be a disappointment.
By the way, while I like seeing the UCI checking so many bikes, I don't think their magnetometer-based device is good enough. A motor without a permanent magnet will not be detected. I think they should use metal detectors, some are very narrowly focused, because if you detect metal in an inch-long section of carbon frame or wheel where there shouldn't be a metal component, that's a clue that something is amiss.
By the way, while I like seeing the UCI checking so many bikes, I don't think their magnetometer-based device is good enough. A motor without a permanent magnet will not be detected. I think they should use metal detectors, some are very narrowly focused, because if you detect metal in an inch-long section of carbon frame or wheel where there shouldn't be a metal component, that's a clue that something is amiss.
What they likely need to do short of fluoroscopy is a multi-faceted test. IR (heat), magnetic, induction, and metal detection.
No doubt the next generation of motor assist bikes will be smarter. For example, one could build a motor into an oversized bottom bracket or oversized hub shell. Maybe not a lot of watts, but say an elite racer got a 50W boost, it could certainly make a huge difference to their performance.
#60
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,639
Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997
Mentioned: 146 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times
in
31 Posts
You figure that pro bike frames are all carbon fiber, and most of the components are too. Of course there will be metal in, say, the derailleur, but a point focused metal detector can be used to avoid the few bits of metal.
I think that it will be possible to hide very small motors in components that are normally metal-containing, and thus fool a metal detector - bottom bracket, rear hub. In a world where even an extra 20 watts can make a difference if sustained for half an hour, even a small motor could be "useful".
I think that it will be possible to hide very small motors in components that are normally metal-containing, and thus fool a metal detector - bottom bracket, rear hub. In a world where even an extra 20 watts can make a difference if sustained for half an hour, even a small motor could be "useful".
#61
TFO
#62
Senior Member
I vote for hacksaws as a cheap, easy, and 100% foolproof way to detect hidden motors...
...or maybe an X-ray machine like those used in airports' check-in lines, although that will most certainly overshoot the simplicity and cost of the hacksaw solution.
...or maybe an X-ray machine like those used in airports' check-in lines, although that will most certainly overshoot the simplicity and cost of the hacksaw solution.
#63
Senior Member
They had been using x-ray machines before they developed their compact tablet tester. Clever Ways to Catch a Pro Cyclist Cheating With a Hidden Motor | WIRED
#65
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Central Pa.
Posts: 99
Bikes: 96 Merckx AX, 85 Colnago Super, 2000 Colnago Classic, Bianchi ZeroUno Cross, GT Zaskar
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
"The acquittal is impossible, that bike was in my pit zone." Quote from her when she dropped the case, and gave up her license, today .
#66
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18353 Post(s)
Liked 4,502 Times
in
3,346 Posts
I assume this means that Femke has chosen to permanently withdraw from racing, and she might have troubles getting sponsors anyway.
#67
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Central Pa.
Posts: 99
Bikes: 96 Merckx AX, 85 Colnago Super, 2000 Colnago Classic, Bianchi ZeroUno Cross, GT Zaskar
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
UCI was going for $50.000 Swiss and lifetime ban . She quit racing as of today, the day before facing the UCI hearing . She and her advisors saw an unwinnable situation . UCI to their credit, eliminated any grey areas, "in the event or on the margins" . Perhaps sanctions against her trade and national teams, influenced the cessation ???
#69
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Hi all,
Something caught my eye at the Giro, stage 20, 11.3km to go.
Nibali loses Chaves and attacks to go over the big climb. At 11.3km to go, now solo Nibali takes a water bottle from the side of the road. Doesn't seem to have any water in it! You can tell. He then puts the bottle in is holder and immediately the bike seems to take an un-natural acceleration up hill! without pedalling!
I have heard batteries can be hidden in bottles. He then goes all the way to the top without taking any of the water and ditches the bottle over the top. Doesnt seem to be a constant acceleration all the way to the top but could definitely be a key burst of speed at the right time!! I really hope I am wrong with this, for cycling's sake - but it's worth a look!! Please somebody tell me my eyes are deceiving me!
Something caught my eye at the Giro, stage 20, 11.3km to go.
Nibali loses Chaves and attacks to go over the big climb. At 11.3km to go, now solo Nibali takes a water bottle from the side of the road. Doesn't seem to have any water in it! You can tell. He then puts the bottle in is holder and immediately the bike seems to take an un-natural acceleration up hill! without pedalling!
I have heard batteries can be hidden in bottles. He then goes all the way to the top without taking any of the water and ditches the bottle over the top. Doesnt seem to be a constant acceleration all the way to the top but could definitely be a key burst of speed at the right time!! I really hope I am wrong with this, for cycling's sake - but it's worth a look!! Please somebody tell me my eyes are deceiving me!
#71
Senior Member
Hi all,
Something caught my eye at the Giro, stage 20, 11.3km to go.
.... At 11.3km to go, now solo Nibali takes a water bottle from the side of the road. Doesn't seem to have any water in it! You can tell. He then puts the bottle in is holder and immediately the bike seems to take an un-natural acceleration up hill! without pedalling!
I have heard batteries can be hidden in bottles. He then goes all the way to the top without taking any of the water and ditches the bottle over the top. Doesnt seem to be a constant acceleration all the way to the top but could definitely be a key burst of speed at the right time!......
Something caught my eye at the Giro, stage 20, 11.3km to go.
.... At 11.3km to go, now solo Nibali takes a water bottle from the side of the road. Doesn't seem to have any water in it! You can tell. He then puts the bottle in is holder and immediately the bike seems to take an un-natural acceleration up hill! without pedalling!
I have heard batteries can be hidden in bottles. He then goes all the way to the top without taking any of the water and ditches the bottle over the top. Doesnt seem to be a constant acceleration all the way to the top but could definitely be a key burst of speed at the right time!......
I don't know the mechanics of powering a motor but I would imagine the battery would have to be plugged in to the motor and that would require more than putting the water bottle into the cage. Besides I believe they have been checking the bikes for motors after the stage but hey nothing would surprise me at this point.
#72
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
If you watch it you can tell theres hardly anything in the bottle if any at all. And if there is he wouldn't carry it to the top without taking any and then ditch at the top before the decent.
I hope I'm wrong, but it wouldnt surprise me, in fact nothing would surprise me with Astana.
Yeah I heard they are checking the bikes also - thing is who is checking them!? a lot of things going on at the finish and a lot of riders change bikes mid ride. THe bottle can have a battery at the bottom where it could click into the motor/ hidden under cage fittings.
I hope I'm wrong, but it wouldnt surprise me, in fact nothing would surprise me with Astana.
Yeah I heard they are checking the bikes also - thing is who is checking them!? a lot of things going on at the finish and a lot of riders change bikes mid ride. THe bottle can have a battery at the bottom where it could click into the motor/ hidden under cage fittings.
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,201
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1186 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times
in
177 Posts
Keep trying...
#74
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
like I say! I hope im wrong. I don't want to see anyone cheating, and don't like suggesting it either without solid evidence, but even the commentary noted that there looked like a gear problem. I think it was literally a minute or 2minutes max.
If someone can look at it, and then say otherwise then fair enough. Fair point with the battery, but we are talking multi-million $ budgets here.
If someone can look at it, and then say otherwise then fair enough. Fair point with the battery, but we are talking multi-million $ budgets here.
#75
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,201
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1186 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times
in
177 Posts
like I say! I hope im wrong. I don't want to see anyone cheating, and don't like suggesting it either without solid evidence, but even the commentary noted that there looked like a gear problem. I think it was literally a minute or 2minutes max.
If someone can look at it, and then say otherwise then fair enough. Fair point with the battery, but we are talking multi-million $ budgets here.
If someone can look at it, and then say otherwise then fair enough. Fair point with the battery, but we are talking multi-million $ budgets here.