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First "motorized doping" found in top level racing

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First "motorized doping" found in top level racing

Old 01-30-16, 05:43 PM
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jyl
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First "motorized doping" found in top level racing

The UCI's checks have found the first bike with a hidden motor.

'Technological fraud' discovered at Zolder cyclocross worlds - VeloNews.com

There is some question whether the rider used it in the CX race, or was intending to use it, or if it was an official team bike, or even really her bike. But I expect the book to be thrown, if they can. The UCI is going to want to make an example of this.

Motorized doping seems incredibly stupid, because it is so easily detected. By inspection, and also by the noise. Like taking a big EPO dose right before the race, and then blatantly blowing away your opponents. But the thought has always been been, what if the rider uses a motorized bike during a stage, but changes bikes so that he doesn't finish the stage on that bike. A CX race, with frequent mid race bike changes and huge crowd noise, would seem a place where someone might try this.

Incidentally, with Di2 and now EPS, there will be a battery and wires in the seattube. But not a motor . . .

Background: http://cyclingtips.com/2015/04/hidde...how-they-work/

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Old 01-30-16, 11:40 PM
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So, I guess Greg Lemond was right again.
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Old 01-31-16, 03:06 PM
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Why would ANYONE even have a motorized system in a race cyclocross bike ? These bikes aren't beach cruisers they are purposely built race bikes. Since you cant EVER use a motorized cyclocross bike for ANY reason then why would you build one ?
The reason is simple....CHEATING.
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Old 01-31-16, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by KingCat View Post
Why would ANYONE even have a motorized system in a race cyclocross bike ? These bikes aren't beach cruisers they are purposely built race bikes. Since you cant EVER use a motorized cyclocross bike for ANY reason then why would you build one ?
The reason is simple....CHEATING.
That looks to be the size of it. The way the accused cheater throws everyone under the bus, from her friend who allegedly owns the motorized bike to the mechanic who set it up for race day sounds awfully familiar. It has a sort of Texas twang to it.
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Old 01-31-16, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
That looks to be the size of it. The way the accused cheater throws everyone under the bus, from her friend who allegedly owns the motorized bike to the mechanic who set it up for race day sounds awfully familiar. It has a sort of Texas twang to it.
Why would the mechanic build a motorized bike ? Where were they planning on using it
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Old 02-01-16, 12:08 AM
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Now we have 3 threads?
http://www.bikeforums.net/cyclocross...al-doping.html
http://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...ing-motor.html

So far I haven't seen anything indicating they actually found batteries in the bicycle. Of course, perhaps that detail was lost in translation. But, it is quite possible that the bike which apparently WAS RIDDEN in the race until it had mechanical problems had a non-functional motor system, with no intent to cheat.

As far as why install a motor?

It could be used as a training aid, allowing weaker cyclists to train with the stronger cyclists, or even making training with weaker cyclists to still be competitive for those stronger cyclists.

At this point, I think one needs to just let the UCI unravel exactly what happened before condemning anybody.

And, if there was no intent to cheat, the mechanics and riders should have know what bike was being used in the race.
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Old 02-01-16, 05:56 AM
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See last post by me in cyclocross racing UCI rule 1.3.010, doped bike in the race or at the venue, brings the UCI down on TEAM and rider . Neither has a leg to stand on .
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Old 02-01-16, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Now we have 3 threads?
http://www.bikeforums.net/cyclocross...al-doping.html
http://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...ing-motor.html

So far I haven't seen anything indicating they actually found batteries in the bicycle. Of course, perhaps that detail was lost in translation. But, it is quite possible that the bike which apparently WAS RIDDEN in the race until it had mechanical problems had a non-functional motor system, with no intent to cheat.

As far as why install a motor?

It could be used as a training aid, allowing weaker cyclists to train with the stronger cyclists, or even making training with weaker cyclists to still be competitive for those stronger cyclists.

At this point, I think one needs to just let the UCI unravel exactly what happened before condemning anybody.

And, if there was no intent to cheat, the mechanics and riders should have know what bike was being used in the race.
Seriously? The only reason to put a motor in a bike for use by a top level rider is to cheat. Period.
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Old 02-01-16, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Now we have 3 threads?
http://www.bikeforums.net/cyclocross...al-doping.html
http://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...ing-motor.html

So far I haven't seen anything indicating they actually found batteries in the bicycle. Of course, perhaps that detail was lost in translation. But, it is quite possible that the bike which apparently WAS RIDDEN in the race until it had mechanical problems had a non-functional motor system, with no intent to cheat.

As far as why install a motor?

It could be used as a training aid, allowing weaker cyclists to train with the stronger cyclists, or even making training with weaker cyclists to still be competitive for those stronger cyclists.

At this point, I think one needs to just let the UCI unravel exactly what happened before condemning anybody.

And, if there was no intent to cheat, the mechanics and riders should have know what bike was being used in the race.
The only reason to have an expensive, hidden motor at a race is to cheat....nothing else makes any sense.
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Old 02-01-16, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RJM View Post
The only reason to have an expensive, hidden motor at a race is to cheat....nothing else makes any sense.
+1.What's with the use of the word "doping" in this context? The linked article calls it "technological fraud." Perhaps there is a term found in the UCI (or other) regulations.
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Old 02-01-16, 02:19 PM
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I'm still waiting to hear the proof that she actually used the motor in the race.
If it was hot and they detected it via IR, then that should be proof enough.

If it was cold and they picked it up via some incidental scan, then it should be proven to be at least unctional.

I can imagine pulling seatposts and inspecting the seat tube. But, that would just drive the next generation of stealth technology. If the device can fit into the seat tube, then it could just as easily fit into the downtube, although the bike might have to be built around the motor and battery pack, not that it would be impossible for a custom frame builder to do.

The kid is young. A 6 month, ban for a 19 yr old will just be a drop in the bucket. She'd still be back in time for fall races. Or, maybe she can take a few college classes.
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Old 02-01-16, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I'm still waiting to hear the proof that she actually used the motor in the race.
If it was hot and they detected it via IR, then that should be proof enough.

If it was cold and they picked it up via some incidental scan, then it should be proven to be at least unctional.

I can imagine pulling seatposts and inspecting the seat tube. But, that would just drive the next generation of stealth technology. If the device can fit into the seat tube, then it could just as easily fit into the downtube, although the bike might have to be built around the motor and battery pack, not that it would be impossible for a custom frame builder to do.

The kid is young. A 6 month, ban for a 19 yr old will just be a drop in the bucket. She'd still be back in time for fall races. Or, maybe she can take a few college classes.
It's still not clear to me that she actually rode the bike in the race, let alone used the motor. My understanding is, just having it there, among the team bikes, is a big no-no. Her knowledge and possible use of it might affect the severity of the sanction, but she's still looking at a minimum of a 6 month vacation just for it being there, the way it looks to me.
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Old 02-01-16, 03:49 PM
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As far as bikes in the pit area. Do they still affix number tags (a,b,c?) to all the bikes intended for use? That would at least clear up whether it was a "race bike". However, it is my understanding that she finished her last lap on that bike, and it was sequestered immediately after finishing that lap. If the motor system was complete and functional, then I'd consider it used. If it was HOT, then it almost definitely was used (almost, there is still friction). If the system was incomplete, the it would seem to be no different than carrying around a toy motor in one's saddle bag.

Heck, the technology is here to drop real-time GPS transmitters into the seat tube. Then apply an official tamperproof "race seal" to the bikes. And, thus know exactly when and where each bike was used, and even get an acceleration profile for each bike during the race.

Should all the cyclists that ride motorcycles to the pit area be disqualified? What about all those team motorcycles chasing the cyclists in road races?

It is possible that the girl knew about the switch and the father didn't. How many 19 yr olds try to pull a fast one on their parents? Cheating in school just to carry home that golden report card?
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Old 02-01-16, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
As far as bikes in the pit area. Do they still affix number tags (a,b,c?) to all the bikes intended for use? That would at least clear up whether it was a "race bike". However, it is my understanding that she finished her last lap on that bike, and it was sequestered immediately after finishing that lap. If the motor system was complete and functional, then I'd consider it used. If it was HOT, then it almost definitely was used (almost, there is still friction). If the system was incomplete, the it would seem to be no different than carrying around a toy motor in one's saddle bag.

Heck, the technology is here to drop real-time GPS transmitters into the seat tube. Then apply an official tamperproof "race seal" to the bikes. And, thus know exactly when and where each bike was used, and even get an acceleration profile for each bike during the race.

Should all the cyclists that ride motorcycles to the pit area be disqualified? What about all those team motorcycles chasing the cyclists in road races?

It is possible that the girl knew about the switch and the father didn't. How many 19 yr olds try to pull a fast one on their parents? Cheating in school just to carry home that golden report card?
Rules are, just having an illegal bike in the pits or at the race is a violation. Need not be ridden in the race. Need not be ready to ride.

Sort of analogous to taking a banned drug. No need to prove the rider rode a race while on the drug, or was helped by the drug in that race. If he took the drug he's bustable, it can even be on the offseason.

UCI is trying to crush motor doping. They are worried, they've believed it was happening, have quickly rolled out regs and tools to stop it.

This is the first case, so unclear how they'll punish her. Regs say at least six months, at least SFR 20000. Could be more. Many are calling for lifetime ban.

Best case for her, she proves her story (sold her old team bike to friend, he installed motor without her knowledge, brought bike to the race, left it by her pit or truck, her mechanics thought it was hers and took it in with her bikes) and gets a six month ban. She'll still be persona non grata in the sport for years, might not be allowed to register for races, won't have a team, no sponsor, spectators throwing stuff at her, etc.
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Old 02-01-16, 10:26 PM
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Reminds me of drag racing where a class will be ALL MOTOR, no power adders, no nitrous, no super chargers. The rules also say NO nitrous equipment on the car. Then a guy gets busted with hidden nitrous equipment but says "i forgot it was on there, I didn't even use it"
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Old 02-01-16, 11:17 PM
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The friend has come forward and said it was his bike. No other statement, yet, so doesn't answer much.
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Old 02-02-16, 12:08 AM
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seems every sector of this forum posted this and many wants One Of them Now.
only 2700 euros ,, not installed FOB Germany..

Last edited by fietsbob; 02-02-16 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 02-02-16, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
seems every sector of this forum posted this and many wants One Of them Now.
only 2700 euros ,, not installed FOB Germany..
I would love to have one for my local mtb and cross races
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Old 02-02-16, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jyl View Post
Rules are, just having an illegal bike in the pits or at the race is a violation. Need not be ridden in the race. Need not be ready to ride.

Sort of analogous to taking a banned drug. No need to prove the rider rode a race while on the drug, or was helped by the drug in that race. If he took the drug he's bustable, it can even be on the offseason.
We'll see how this plays out. It is just bizarre that several members of a race team, including the rider, would be unable to recognise which bikes are team bikes, and which are not. Or that somebody not on the team would not be concerned when his multi-thousand dollar bike just went missing.

As far as off-season drugs.

Consider weight-lifting and anabolic steroids.

Would it be fair to use the anabolic steroids during training for bulking up. Then having a brief clean-out period before competitive events? Plus, the idea of having a drug-free sport is to discourage people from using potentially dangerous drugs during training for that competitive edge.

EPO, HGH, and Anabolic Steroids may all have positive training benefits that last beyond when they are detectable in the system.

There are a few drugs such as beta blockers that are sport specific, and in many cases are unrestricted during the off-season.

Anyway, merely owning a motorized bicycle is a far different.

I don't know. The events just seem bizarre. I suppose on wouldn't expect someone that dopes to admit it until they are presented with irrefutable evidence of their deceit.
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Old 02-02-16, 05:08 AM
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Rules are the rules, now the damage is done . USA sport talk radio that made LA the center of all USA anti bicycle wrath, has yes, begun to discuss this dreadful incident . Won't be long before the knuckle draggers on the "safe US roads, figure we all have a motor, up our ...seatube" . The bike was on the scene, it's a direct, clear violation . UCI has full autonomy as to the rules and their penalties .
If Eddy Merckx had his way she'd be banned for life . Look at the big picture, it's been 6 years in the light, UCI's been looking for years . Lemond went on record stating the potential . UCI re wrote the rules, fines and penalties one year ago . That is bizarre, they UCI saw it coming .
Suggest the internet lawyers read all that Cycling News, Velonews and the Euro press have been writing since Flanders in 2010 . The sport has taken an awful turn into a place we were starting to emerge from .
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Old 02-02-16, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jyl View Post
The friend has come forward and said it was his bike. No other statement, yet, so doesn't answer much.
The story is that he bought her last season's bike.

Then he didn't change her saddle, pedals, the fit or any cosmetic feature of the bike (i.e. it *matches* her current bike pretty much exactly).

Then it just *happens* to be in the pit area.


Would have been an incredibly unlucky mix up if she rode the wrong bike on a lap or two before changing back to the correct one...
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Old 02-02-16, 06:43 AM
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when caught cheating the rider, mechanics, team have to come up with something and their something is it's someone else's bike. There is absolutely no reason to admit they were cheating now...after an investigation and they have their punishment handed down, then they will admit it.

She was blasting up those climbs though on a bike that suspiciously looks exactly like the one that had all the fun built into it.
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Old 02-02-16, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by RJM View Post
when caught cheating the rider, mechanics, team have to come up with something and their something is it's someone else's bike. There is absolutely no reason to admit they were cheating now...after an investigation and they have their punishment handed down, then they will admit it.

She was blasting up those climbs though on a bike that suspiciously looks exactly like the one that had all the fun built into it.
Look at her time splits at Koppenberg cross, she went 2nd against elite women . There she lost monumental time on descents, made up chunks of time climbing . She is not a skilled technical rider, watch the races . UCI was made a fool by PED lawyers . The written rules in this case have no wiggle room, UCI has full control . Cripes Froomes bike was torn down, video exists of Contadors bike disassembled at the Giro . The rumors have become fact .

Hence the clause, if a non compliant bike is near the site, rider, team, mechanics are all, guilty . In the pits, case closed, possible $1,000,000 francs TEAM fine .
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Old 02-02-16, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
EPO, HGH, and Anabolic Steroids may all have positive training benefits that last beyond when they are detectable in the system.
That's why people are giving Peyton Manning a pass for HGH, because he wasn't playing the year that it was being sent to his house.
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Old 02-02-16, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by JonnyHK View Post
Then it just *happens* to be in the pit area.
A million-to-one shot, doc, a million-to-one
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