HardyWeinberg

Boy I thought today's finish was even uglier than Tuesday's!

HardyWeinberg

Sherwin was talking about him being an unsafe rider today. He said there's always a few.

Philly215

Lol at this video!!!

dwing

TDF GC format is boring and outdated. As long as GC is based on time it will remain long drawn out event full of boredom. Breakaways that lead 100+ km of a stage with little reward is silly. Riding 150km in a vortex with no incentive to be at the front because it doesnt affect GC placement is silly.

europa

The GC format isn't boring, nor is the race format. What's making modern racing a little boring (and it existed in the past) is the dominance of teams. There is nothing interesting in a team (Sky) that can hire a team of riders who are team leaders in their own right, just clamping a lid on every stage... unless Porte's team manager has a tactics fart and makes BMC do it for them. I personally think that the teams are too big and race radios need to be banned.

I know we went through this whole race radio schmozzle a few years back and the big argument was 'safety'. With so many cars and motorcycles in amongst the riders, I can't see why an emergency up ahead can't be relayed to the riders. Or just have one radio per team and link it to race control only. The teams didn't like it because the team managers would be no longer able to control things. It's also a skill modern riders don't have, that skill being the ability to read the race and react to it rather than just their tiny little pocket. It's too controlled and that leads to boring races.

Similarly with the size of the team. With nine super strong riders, a leading team should be able to control its destiny in every race. Yes yes, I know we'll see team leaders isolated once the mountains come but I don't think that's an issue when you've got one or two teams still strong enough to protect the leader. Cut the size back to six or five and make the team leaders work more for their glory.

Just my thoughts. It doesn't matter what rules they introduce, the teams will find a way to work around them, but I do feel we're using rules that have been exploited to their fullest and it could be made a lot harder for the GC contenders (not that riding a grand tour is ever easy)

Philly215

And that's why this new Hammer Series is so exciting. That was some fun stuff. And that's why Crit races are so fun and trendy. They are fast and exciting.

DLBroox

So do you watch it?

I mean I'm really not trying to be a jerk here by asking this, but if you think it's that lame why are you here?

dwing

I wanted to keep the ugliness train rolling for the OP, lol. Truthfully, I am watching some TDF live but mostly watching replay 8x stopping it when i see something of interest... which isnt much. The TDF isn't really showcasing the best all around cyclist when it comes to GC... it is showcasing the best team. A handful of other riders could ride the Sky Train to final yellow. Implement a point system to GC and force the riders to be at the front. 1st 10 over the finish line each stage get points,nobody else. Thru stage 6 who's the better cyclist.. Froome or Kittel?

McBTC

I see the trash-talking of TDF rules, teams, equipment, strategies, all apparently effecting the final outcome in undesirable ways -- suggesting the rules and etc. cause wrong riders win -- and, it just does not square with the facts like Laurent Fignon losing to Greg Lemond by 8 seconds in the final stage of the 1989 tour or that those in power changed the race in every way they could dream up to prevent LA from winning year after year...

seypat

Man, those GC contenders are racing hard today! They are truly giving max effort. Who needs breakaway and sprints when you have those guys going toe to toe.

Chicago Al 

I'll just leave this here, with accompanying video showing Cavendish looking right at an approaching rider, then steering into him:

https://deadspin.com/scary-track-cycl...o-t-1785320923

Chicago Al 

And this, from Cavendish' crash in the 2014 Tour, with the notable quote: 'In reality, I tried to find a gap that wasn't really there.'

Mark Cavendish takes blame for Tour de France crash - Cycling Weekly

Kevindale

Coming back to this after a few days, I've changed my mind about Sagan deserving DQ (as seems to be the general consensus). Additional thoughts:

1. The UCI is completely full of it when they suggest this was to send a message to other riders to ride more safely. As has been amply noted, there have been many similarly aggressive/dangerous/bold moves during the sprints, generating bitter complaints by some riders, and yet the UCI doesn't seem to have batted an eyelash, much less sanctioned anyone.

2. The statement by the Tour director that Sagan was partly DQ'd because he caused the earlier stage crash seems to be a complete hatched job.

Having watched the overhead view of the start of that crash, it's clear that other riders (just ahead of Sagan and to his left) touched wheels, and one of those three riders veers into Sagan. Sagan holds his line while giving the rider as much room as he can without crashing the guy to his right. The wobbling rider goes down, starting the crash. Am I misreading that video of the earlier crash? I'm surprised the Tour director,Thierry Gouvenou, claiming this isn't a bigger deal. Here's the video - go to 1:47 and go full screen:

3. If the only time a rider is punished for overly-aggressive riding is when a famous rider actually crashes and is injured, then nothing is going to change. Which the pro riders seem to know, and so they continue to do what they've always done. Meanwhile, the race will continue to have overly complex sprint finishes, like Stage 4, where crashes are predictable. Why? Because it's exciting. Professional cycling seems to be run by astonishingly cynical and disingenuous organizations, not just today, but since it's inception.

4. I'm really struggling to stay excited about the Tour. It was nice to see the young French rider take today's stage, but it really feels like all the jersey's are a foregone conclusion at this point, except perhaps the polka dot.

Nachoman

Incorrect.

Marcus_Ti

Uh...they always were. I'd put money on Froome getting yellow. I'd also have put money on Sagan getting Green. From Day 1. Sagan and Cav being out actually makes the Green competition more competitive and interesting than it does with them riding.

Kevindale

Yeah, Sagan was the fav for green, to the point that people were making ludicrous predictions that he could win 11 stages (I realize that wasn't totally serious). At the same time, he has seemed to be much more on his own in winning his green jerseys than other jersey winners. In other words, it has seemed like much more of a team sport for the other riders.

I don't know about this year seeming more interesting. With Sagan, it was him against everyone, including the rules-makers. In yesterday's stage, Kittel looks almost unstoppable. In today's stage, the number 2 contender was at risk of being dropped from the race for finishing so late.

For me, the new question of interest is -- what's next for Sagan? How does he fill this time? My guess is he starts pointing himself towards the World Championships. It's been a very frustrating year so far, with the Tour stage win a rare highlight. I'm guessing he'll be very focused, and will be riding with a chip on his shoulder. Should be exciting.

ooga-booga

perhaps sagan will ride the first week of the vuelta for wc prep. i think he could factor into 5 of the first 7 stages.

Kevindale

This is what I was initially hoping, though I didn't consider that he'd just race the first week. It doesn't seem very sporting, though I know riders do it all the time, and I'm sure the Vuelta organizers would love to have him in the race, even if only a few stages. It would be great to see him use the time and energy in a real race, and not just training. OTOH, would winning a couple of Vuelta stages be worth the risk?

seypat

Is that what Demare did, or is his climbing ability that bad? FDJ down to 5 riders. Lost all 4 due to time on stage 9. If his climbing is that bad, then we have something in common!

Flip Flop Rider

was wondering if anyone was watching the tour, usually only frequent general discussion and over fifty forum

the finishes of each stage have been thrilling (except the TT of course). The announcers and commentators are awesome, especially Jens Voight (say Jens do you think the break away can hold off the peleton, uh no)

as for Sagan and Cavendish, wow. I like Sagan I guess because the announcers talk about him so much and with such reverence as the world champion. I don't race and never have so I only know what the announcers explain, but, no way Sagan should have elbowed another rider like that.

Cavendish did run out of room, but this is not bumper cars, and I don't think you should intentionally wreck someone in bike racing.

If you remember Sagan bumped two other riders in other parts of either this stage or an earlier one. I believe one time it was Kittel and another it was Griepel. They didn't go down but Sagan seems to make contact with other riders and is the only rider I've seen ride like this.

So yes, i believe Sagan was at fault, but hate he was disqualified because he is an exciting rider, and his name rolls off the announcer's tongue

HardyWeinberg

surprised FDJ was willing to chuck Demare's entire support crew, wasn't there some point where he should have 'taken one for the team' and sent them on ahead, rather than take the whole team down with him?

DLBroox

I thought the same thing.

europa

Maybe you need to rethink the bit about Sagan elbowing Cavendish



Cav's shifter snagged his arm and pulled it out. Once you know this, it's very clear in the videos and even more damning of the race jury.

That's only part of the story of course, all I'm saying is that the elbow, which initially appeared damning, is more indicative of Cav's riding. A close up front on video also shows him leaning on Sagan's back immediately before this still. What's really at question is the behaviour of both riders leading up to this point.

Campag4life

Truthfully, that close up is even more damning of Sagan. Pretty clear that Sagan elbowed Cav in the nuts. Up to viewers as to whether it was intentional or not, or just seemed like the right thing to do at the time because Cav was being a pest and trying to ruin Sagan's chances for victory in the stage. Look at the expression on Cav's face. Pretty common to someone just hit in the balls.

lsberrios1