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this is gonna get ugly

Old 07-04-17, 11:30 AM
  #26  
Philly215
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And Sagan is out of the Tour now. What a crock of chit. In motorcycle racing, Cavendish would be penalized for doing something like that. But the UCI never fails to completely alienate fans.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:32 AM
  #27  
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Im not going to host pics but some great images here.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...186&start=3810
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Old 07-04-17, 11:34 AM
  #28  
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some one show the capture of him head butting sagan.. it on the same video.. it mean nothing because the decision has been made and now all i have to look forward to is froom and the sky train just putting the whole race to sleep.. but there is evidence of cav trying to make a hole by head butting sagan... and if you look at the line that cave had look how close his wheels are to sagans line... there is not room... i think the elbow was just a self preservation too keep upright but... they saw it different... but there is a frame where cav is head on into sagan.. i think if cav survived the race they would have at least both been given the boot..
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Old 07-04-17, 11:36 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Well if you watch the slow mo video I posted above, freeze it at 0.04 and still fail to see his line was WIDE open, not "closing" then you'll never see it. But obviously the race officials agree with me.
You're video is ****. If you actually watch a real video Sagan wasn't going straight. He was coming at an angle and closing in towards the barrier. Cav tried to shove himself in there. Re-tarded.

And Demare was completely wreckless. Cut across half the track and took out someone's wheel. But they aren't addressing that cuz he's French. The UCI is such a joke and it sucks because this is why there are no American sponsors and why it isn't a bigger sport with the fans.

And I love Cav. I just bought his book. But he was wrong here.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:39 AM
  #30  
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Look at the weight weenies thread now. There's a great set of images. 4-5 that show the elbow didn't come out until AFTER Cav was already laying on the barrier.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:39 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Philly215 View Post
You're video is ****. If you actually watch a real video Sagan wasn't going straight. He was coming at an able and closing in towards the barrier. Cav tried to shove himself in there. Re-tarded.
You're wrong. He new Cav was there, unless he was asleep, and he veered into his open line. That's against race regulations weather you like it or not. If it was allowed there's no telling how many dead pro cyclists there would be.

And the obvious elbow throw probably didn't help his cause, either. He's out.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:41 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Philly215 View Post
Look at the weight weenies thread now. There's a great set of images. 4-5 that show the elbow didn't come out until AFTER Cav was already laying on the barrier.
Weight weenies lol. So how did he go down?
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Old 07-04-17, 11:42 AM
  #33  
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Good thing I didn't pay for the app. Too many questions on both sides to warrant a DQ-IMHO. Punishment, sure, but DQ?
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Old 07-04-17, 11:50 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Philly215 View Post
Lol no. He tried to fit in a closing hole. He was wreckless and careless.
It was a closing hole because Sagan left his line to pinch out Cavendish. There was no reason for Sagan to move right other than to block out Cavendish, the elbow was added emphasis.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:53 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Weight weenies lol. So how did he go down?
By running in to the back of Sagan. It's very clear. Elbow came out after Cav crashed himself. Sagan is in a full out sprint, probably putting out 2000 watts or something crazy, gets ran in to, throws his elbow out and hits air, and gets thrown out. The pics don't lie.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:55 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by FrenchFit View Post
It was a closing hole because Sagan left his line to pinch out Cavendish. There was no reason for Sagan to move right other than to block out Cavendish, the elbow was added emphasis.
Uh no. He was passing the rider in front of him. And it wasn't a sudden line change.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:56 AM
  #37  
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I feel for Sagan, but I support his side, maybe a fine, but DQ'd was too much. KB
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Old 07-04-17, 12:00 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Philly215 View Post
By running in to the back of Sagan.
He ran "into the back" of Sagan and went down? How is that possible when they are side by side with their legs touching and their front wheels directly opposite?




Perhaps Sagan wanted to make a pass, but it's against race regulations to cut someone off (and throw an elbow) to do it. So he's out.
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Old 07-04-17, 12:04 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
He ran "into the back" of Sagan and went down? How is that possible when they are side by side with their legs touching and their front wheels directly opposite?




Perhaps Sagan wanted to make a pass, but it's against race regulations to cut someone off (and throw an elbow) to do it. So he's out.
your photo shows what happened after Cavendish put his shoulder into Sagan.

https://imgur.com/gallery/X8IXE

Last edited by noodle soup; 07-04-17 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 07-04-17, 12:08 PM
  #40  
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DQ seems justified to me, albeit based on fewer watchings than the race jury. Sagan had plenty of room on his left. If he had stuck to his line, Cav would have had room. Instead, Sagan moved to his left, and flicked his elbow at Cav. Sagan was also apparently being similarly irresponsible yesterday.

That said, it seems like Cav has pulled similar stunts in the past, no?
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Old 07-04-17, 12:11 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Philly215 View Post
By running in to the back of Sagan. It's very clear. Elbow came out after Cav crashed himself.
Sorry, but you are incorrect. From the overhead and oncoming shots, you can see how Sagan flicked his elbow before Cav started going down.

I'd agree Sagan was already in the process of cutting off Cav, but he had no reason to change his line other than to cut off Cav and force him against the barriers.
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Old 07-04-17, 12:13 PM
  #42  
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It appears Sagan moved right for no reason because the rider that won, DeMare had just moved left clearing that space. I believe he moved right to attempt to pass DeMare, after DeMare vacated the space it looked like Sagan moved right for no reason. The still photos after DeMare moved left erroneously give the impression there was no reason for Sagan to go right.

I think Cavendish crashed in a failed attempt to clear space by running into Sagan. Few riders have shown to be as immovable on the bike as Cavendish, but Sagan was then.

I watched again and concluded Sagan knew Cavendish or somebody was there and he braced for contact and hip checked him. I think DQ may be justified. The above is incorrect.

Last edited by Lakerat; 07-04-17 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 07-04-17, 12:15 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
DQ seems justified to me, albeit based on fewer watchings than the race jury. Sagan had plenty of room on his left. If he had stuck to his line, Cav would have had room. Instead, Sagan moved to his left, and flicked his elbow at Cav. Sagan was also apparently being similarly irresponsible yesterday.

That said, it seems like Cav has pulled similar stunts in the past, no?
I agree. Both Sagan and Cav don't hesitate to lean out and track bump whomever is trying to pass, and they usually get away with it. Strange justice here, Sagan is out and Cav is likely to withdraw. Although I acknowledge they are legendary racers, I think karma is being served.
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Old 07-04-17, 12:24 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by keg61 View Post
Somebody has to start the Cav vs Sagan argument, it might as well be me.... it's been 30 years since I did any racing and yes I "only watch it on tv a few days a year" but it seemed pretty clear to me that there was not room for Cavendish to try to pass between Sagan and the barrier, he asked for trouble and got what he asked for
+1

Shame they cancelled the rest of the tour.
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Old 07-04-17, 12:35 PM
  #45  
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I'm a big Sagan fan, and after watching the first very short video a dozen times (the head-on view that starts right as Cavendish is about to start crashing), I really though Sagan was just defending himself and his line, and Cavendish was foolishly squeezing into a tiny gap. But then seeing the video from above and behind, and the 4-5 seconds leading up to the crash, it's clear that Sagan came over on Cavendish, threatening to cut him off. It looks like Cavendish reacts by shouting and leaning into Sagan, and Sagan compounds his faux pas by flicking an elbow, not once but twice. If he'd have kept his elbow in, he probably would still be in the race. I hate to admit it, but I think the DQ is warranted.
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Old 07-04-17, 12:44 PM
  #46  
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I feel that the real issue is, officials making a decision, then changing it some time later. Fine him or DQ then move on. I see politics at play now.
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Old 07-04-17, 01:05 PM
  #47  
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Aside from the crash...does anyone have a clue as to why Cavendish was in that group of riders, rather than following Renshaw? Prior to the crash, Renshaw was looking for Cavendish...turns out he was on the left side of the road in a line behind some of the sprinters. Bad strategy?
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Old 07-04-17, 01:05 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Well if you watch the slow mo video I posted above, freeze it at 0.04 and still fail to see his line was WIDE open, not "closing" then you'll never see it. But obviously the race officials agree with me.
I agree with you as well. Its pretty obvious from the video that Cavendish had a lot of room to move through and a good head of steam. Sagan who is a genius of a rider saw Cavendish coming, moved over on him to close the hole and then elbowed him into the fence. This is UCI's ruling and I agree with it as well.


All said, I love Sagan. But what he did to prevent Cav from going by him did put everybody in back in jeopardy and Cav is likely out of the tour as well.


There is no good scenario here. This ain't NASCAR and as big a talent as there is in pro cycling today, Sagan can't put guys out of the race with his bike or elbow if he wants to continue and compete.


Sagan likely won't do that again.
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Old 07-04-17, 01:16 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life View Post
I agree with you as well. Its pretty obvious from the video that Cavendish had a lot of room to move through and a good head of steam. Sagan who is a genius of a rider saw Cavendish coming, moved over on him to close the hole and then elbowed him into the fence. This is UCI's ruling and I agree with it as well.

Sagan likely won't do that again.
Sagan did what Cavendish has done many times to others.
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Old 07-04-17, 01:21 PM
  #50  
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A time/points penalty, warning and fine should be OK, but DQ is too much IMO.
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