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Old 07-04-17, 01:26 PM
  #51  
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I also think because other guys went down it made it so that something had to be done more than just the loss of thirty seconds. Maybe if it had only been Cav going down since he was part of the original contact and poor decision making they would not have expelled Sagan, but Degenkolb and Swift had bad falls because of it too.
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Old 07-04-17, 01:35 PM
  #52  
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Old 07-04-17, 01:36 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by scuzzo View Post
some one show the capture of him head butting sagan.. it on the same video.. it mean nothing because the decision has been made and now all i have to look forward to is froom and the sky train just putting the whole race to sleep.. but there is evidence of cav trying to make a hole by head butting sagan... and if you look at the line that cave had look how close his wheels are to sagans line... there is not room... i think the elbow was just a self preservation too keep upright but... they saw it different... but there is a frame where cav is head on into sagan.. i think if cav survived the race they would have at least both been given the boot..
I just put up a link above with a good shot of Cav's head on Sagan. Elbow is out after he's falling.
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Old 07-04-17, 01:39 PM
  #54  
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I feel that the real issue is, officials making a decision, then changing it some time later. Fine him or DQ then move on. I see politics at play now.
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Old 07-04-17, 01:41 PM
  #55  
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Lol at anyone saying Sagan saw Cav coming up behind him. Cuz yea, Sagan has eyes in the back of his head. Just lol. Do they have mirrors on the bike that I don't know about? That they are looking at while doing a 100% effort Sprint?
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Old 07-04-17, 01:44 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Sagan did what Cavendish has done many times to others.
Yeah. Cav is used to getting his way for sure. Suffice to say because Sagan is such a star, if this wasn't beyond a shadow of a doubt, they wouldn't have put the biggest star in cycling out of the biggest race of the year.


An update on Sagan's reaction hours after the race. Sagan stated that he didn't see or hear Cav coming up on him. Instead he felt what he thought was a mosquito landing on his arm and all he did was to try and flick him off.


Further, Sagan went on to say that Cav really didn't belong on the tour because his bike is so small that Cav can cut between the wheels of bigger bikes like riding under a semi which he feels is an unfair advantage. He went on to say that Cav would clean up however on the tour for children on tot bikes.
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Old 07-04-17, 01:47 PM
  #57  
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I am probably one of the few, but Ii like the UCI's decision. Quick, decisive and it make it plenty clear - you have to hold your line. Even the rainbow stripes don't protect you there. There is a lot of money invested in these riders and someone could well lose a life or suffer permanent, quite possibly disabling injury crashing at close to 40mph wearing just helmet, shoes and short fingered gloves.

This decision sets a new benchmark. Hold your line! Or it will cost you, just maybe, a lot. I suspect the other riders will take notice. (I suspect also that Demare knows he got a pass and might not be so lucky next time.)

Ben
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Old 07-04-17, 01:48 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Philly215 View Post
Lol at anyone saying Sagan saw Cav coming up behind him. Cuz yea, Sagan has eyes in the back of his head. Just lol. Do they have mirrors on the bike that I don't know about? That they are looking at while doing a 100% effort Sprint?
You don't need to see a rider to hear them coming up. A little known fact because Cav is so little is Cav sings opera many times out on the bike...being an English gentleman and all. FWIW, Sagan is a rapper and hates opera and so the rest is history.

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Old 07-04-17, 01:55 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I am probably one of the few, but Ii like the UCI's decision. Quick, decisive and it make it plenty clear - you have to hold your line. Even the rainbow stripes don't protect you there. There is a lot of money invested in these riders and someone could well lose a life or suffer permanent, quite possibly disabling injury crashing at close to 40mph wearing just helmet, shoes and short fingered gloves.

This decision sets a new benchmark. Hold your line! Or it will cost you, just maybe, a lot. I suspect the other riders will take notice. (I suspect also that Demare knows he got a pass and might not be so lucky next time.)

Ben
I agree. The DQ decision was justified. Sagan tried the same thing yesterday on Greipel at an intermediate sprint. Greipel was p*ssed with Sagan yesterday for this very same maneuver. Matters not that the elbow made contact or not, the act of flicking it out like that during a bunch sprint is dangerous.

Just my opinion from a guy who got as close as 10' to a pro peleton while watching from the sidewalk. Not as qualified as all these "pros" with a bunch of you tube videos. I'm guessing the TDF jury have more qualified judges, video and access to riders. Other riders was also complaining about Sagan, not just Cavendish.
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Old 07-04-17, 01:57 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Philly215 View Post
Lol at anyone saying Sagan saw Cav coming up behind him. Cuz yea, Sagan has eyes in the back of his head. Just lol. Do they have mirrors on the bike that I don't know about? That they are looking at while doing a 100% effort Sprint?
LOL "coming up behind him"?? I don't even think you've seen the full footage. They were side by side in the middle of the road 50 meters before the crash practically touching each other. Then Cav swings to the left towards the side of the road and Sagan follows him. Matter of fact, it looks like Sagan was almost pushing him all the way to the side. They seem to touch the first time when Cav was still 4-6 feet away from the wall.

Start at 7:00, when they're next to each other in the middle of the road, then come back and claim Cav was "coming up behind him" lol


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Old 07-04-17, 02:05 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Philly215 View Post
You're video is ****. If you actually watch a real video Sagan wasn't going straight. He was coming at an angle and closing in towards the barrier. Cav tried to shove himself in there. Re-tarded.

And Demare was completely wreckless. Cut across half the track and took out someone's wheel. But they aren't addressing that cuz he's French. The UCI is such a joke and it sucks because this is why there are no American sponsors and why it isn't a bigger sport with the fans.

And I love Cav. I just bought his book. But he was wrong here.
I could not agree with this more. You can argue all day if you want about Sagan, but what Demare did was worse! Since he didn't cause a crash (thanks to Bouhanni's skill) no one is even talking about this. The French are who we thought they were, gutless cowards. I hate Froome but I sincerely hope he puts a minute into everyone tomorrow and turns this joke of a race into a 2.5 week procession. What a disgrace!
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Old 07-04-17, 02:06 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by kcblair View Post
I feel that the real issue is, officials making a decision, then changing it some time later. Fine him or DQ then move on. I see politics at play now.
Oh, whatever. The politics did not change in the space of a few hours.

There is nothing wrong with officials refining -- or in rare cases, overturning -- a decision after further review, shortly after issuing it. It would only be an issue if they tried to change it after the next stage, when the decision had already taken effect on others in the race.
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Old 07-04-17, 02:07 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I am probably one of the few, but Ii like the UCI's decision. Quick, decisive and it make it plenty clear - you have to hold your line. Even the rainbow stripes don't protect you there. There is a lot of money invested in these riders and someone could well lose a life or suffer permanent, quite possibly disabling injury crashing at close to 40mph wearing just helmet, shoes and short fingered gloves.

This decision sets a new benchmark. Hold your line! Or it will cost you, just maybe, a lot. I suspect the other riders will take notice. (I suspect also that Demare knows he got a pass and might not be so lucky next time.)

Ben
So you about you are contradicting your own opinion. Demare veered almost across the whole road. Demare should be gone if Sagan is gone. Only because Cav crashed are we even talking whether his movements were justified.
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Old 07-04-17, 02:13 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
So you about you are contradicting your own opinion. Demare veered almost across the whole road. Demare should be gone if Sagan is gone. Only because Cav crashed are we even talking whether his movements were justified.

Alter your line all you want as long as it doesn't impact another ride. DeMare's line change was in clear space
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Old 07-04-17, 02:13 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
I could not agree with this more.
You might want to rethink that.

If Demare had actually touched the wheel in front of him, Demare would have hit the deck. The rider whose rear wheel gets touched is usually fine.


The French are who we thought they were, gutless cowards.


Please, spare us such tribalist nonsense. "The French" do not have any such inherent characteristics. Neither do the Welsh, Germans, Italians, Americans etc.

More to the point, "The French" did not treat today's stage like a hockey game. That was all Sagan. Not all Slovaks, mind you. Just one, during one specific week.
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Old 07-04-17, 02:14 PM
  #66  
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I'll continue to watch this year's TDF. Not it will matter an iota what I do. The Vuelta is a more exciting race for me anyways. TDF is mostly a commercial for the French countryside with a few good days of racing.
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Old 07-04-17, 02:17 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
LOL "coming up behind him"?? I don't even think you've seen the full footage. They were side by side in the middle of the road 50 meters before the crash practically touching each other. Then Cav swings to the left towards the side of the road and Sagan follows him. Matter of fact, it looks like Sagan was almost pushing him all the way to the side. They seem to touch the first time when Cav was still 4-6 feet away from the wall.

Start at 7:00, when they're next to each other in the middle of the road, then come back and claim Cav was "coming up behind him" lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9tphVXAOec
Yea and in that video you can clearly see Cav diving in to Sagan and putting his head on Sagan's back/shoulder and then falling over because he tried to head butt someone and was out of control. Even the guy commenting in the video calls it that way.
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Old 07-04-17, 02:19 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Philly215 View Post
Yea and in that video you can clearly see Cav diving in to Sagan and putting his head on Sagan's back/shoulder
Well of course he was, Sagan was getting into his line and he was boxed in. What the hell else was he supposed to do? But, since you didn't address the fact they were next to each other in the middle of the road, I assume you give up on your "coming up behind him" argument.
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Old 07-04-17, 02:23 PM
  #69  
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Harsh penalty even if at fault.
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Old 07-04-17, 02:24 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Lakerat View Post
Alter your line all you want as long as it doesn't impact another ride. DeMare's line change was in clear space
Haha ok ask Bouhanni about "clear space".
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Old 07-04-17, 02:25 PM
  #71  
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This is pretty convincing to me...

https://streamable.com/s/j7gqb/ocgmie
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Old 07-04-17, 02:28 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Well of course he was, Sagan was getting into his line and he was boxed in. What the hell else was he supposed to do? But, since you didn't address the fact they were next to each other in the middle of the road, I assume you give up on your "coming up behind him" argument.
Slow down to a complete stop, have a tea, look both ways and make hand signals before proceeding to the finish line.

Again, reading comments from other riders and DS is telling. These are the pros. The might know a bit more about pro cycling than us bike forum guys. Still waiting for them to call me for advice though. Got lots of links and you tube video to share with them.
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Old 07-04-17, 02:29 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
You might want to rethink that.

If Demare had actually touched the wheel in front of him, Demare would have hit the deck. The rider whose rear wheel gets touched is usually fine.





Please, spare us such tribalist nonsense. "The French" do not have any such inherent characteristics. Neither do the Welsh, Germans, Italians, Americans etc.

More to the point, "The French" did not treat today's stage like a hockey game. That was all Sagan. Not all Slovaks, mind you. Just one, during one specific week.
Absolutely clueless reply. Wow. First off you are 1000% wrong about who crashes when rear wheels hit front wheels. Cav did the EXACT same thing to Tom Veelers several years ago and it was Veelers (behind) who went down. Mind you, Cav was not DQ'd for his reckless actions.

Second, if you actually believe Demare being French had nothing to do with the cricket sounds surrounding his terrible sprinting, then I don't know what to tell you.

Edit, I assumed you actually watched the stage, my mistake. Demare almost took out Bouhanni, who was BEHIND him. Please do me a favor and go watch it before commenting.

Last edited by cthenn; 07-04-17 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 07-04-17, 02:37 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
Absolutely clueless reply. Wow. First off you are 1000% wrong about who crashes when rear wheels hit front wheels. Cav did the EXACT same thing to Tom Veelers several years ago and it was Veelers (behind) who went down. Mind you, Cav was not DQ'd for his reckless actions.

Second, if you actually believe Demare being French had nothing to do with the cricket sounds surrounding his terrible sprinting, then I don't know what to tell you.
Here's the video and Mark's explanation. It's racing and racing is dangerous; I don't think Mark did this intentionally.

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Old 07-04-17, 02:38 PM
  #75  
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Wasn't Cav the one who got sanctioned in the Olympics for throwing elbows...
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