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Old 07-04-17, 02:39 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
You might want to rethink that.

If Demare had actually touched the wheel in front of him, Demare would have hit the deck. The rider whose rear wheel gets touched is usually fine.





Please, spare us such tribalist nonsense. "The French" do not have any such inherent characteristics. Neither do the Welsh, Germans, Italians, Americans etc.

More to the point, "The French" did not treat today's stage like a hockey game. That was all Sagan. Not all Slovaks, mind you. Just one, during one specific week.
I don't know enough about the rules to comment, but I think the second part of your comment was 100% correct. "The French" aren't any different than anyone else.
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Old 07-04-17, 02:51 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
Oh, whatever. The politics did not change in the space of a few hours.

There is nothing wrong with officials refining -- or in rare cases, overturning -- a decision after further review, shortly after issuing it. It would only be an issue if they tried to change it after the next stage, when the decision had already taken effect on others in the race.
Good point. KB
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Old 07-04-17, 02:54 PM
  #78  
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Sagan is holding his line, Cav trying to force his way in. But keep arguing this was somehow Sagan's fault...
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Old 07-04-17, 02:56 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
Absolutely clueless reply. Wow.



First off you are 1000% wrong about who crashes when rear wheels hit front wheels.
I'm pretty sure I'm right. If you bump wheels, it's the person behind who is going down.

It's different if you T-bone someone, sure, but nothing of the sort happened today. Not even close.

If you watch the overhead, you can tell that Demare had plenty of room, and wheels didn't touch.


Cav did the EXACT same thing to Tom Veelers several years ago and it was Veelers (behind) who went down. Mind you, Cav was not DQ'd for his reckless actions.
What are you talking about?

In the 2013 incident, Veelers peeled off, and was moving "backwards," while staying to Cav's left side. Cav had plenty of room, and could have moved slightly to the right to avoid any possible issues. Instead, when Cav and Veelers were right next to each other, Cav moved to the left, bumped Veelers, and sent him downtown.

At no point did their wheels touch.

Oh, and those vile cowardly French judges... exonerated Cavendish. Hmmm


Second, if you actually believe Demare being French had nothing to do with the cricket sounds surrounding his terrible sprinting, then I don't know what to tell you.
How about admitting you're wrong?

Bouhanni's bike shows no sign of being hit. His wheel didn't wobble. Demare wasn't moving directly into another rider. Bouhanni did not lodge a protest. I'm gonna guess that's because Demare didn't touch his wheel.
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Old 07-04-17, 02:56 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
Sagan is holding his line, Cav trying to force good way in. But keep arguing this was somehow Sagan's fault...
That picture tells nothing. They were next to each other in the middle of the road. Cav veered toward the right to get an open lane and Sagan followed him all the way into the wall.
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Old 07-04-17, 03:00 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
Sagan is holding his line, Cav trying to force his way in. But keep arguing this was somehow Sagan's fault...
Uh, hello? Sagan was moving to the right. He was not holding his line, and was not forced to the right by any other cyclists; his left side was clear. He came from behind Cav, then tried to shut the door on him. He did it too soon, and the result was Cavendish hitting the deck.

You are doing your position no favors by these types of posts.
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Old 07-04-17, 03:01 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
That picture tells nothing. They were next to each other in the middle of the road. Cav veered toward the right to get an open lane and Sagan followed him all the way into the wall.
There's no point arguing with you. I see you around the forums...you are NEVER wrong, and can go all day arguing the most insignificant thing. As someone posted above, the consensus among the actual racers, and those involved in this race is that the jury was wrong, and the DQ was unfair.

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Old 07-04-17, 03:06 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
Uh, hello? Sagan was moving to the right. He was not holding his line, and was not forced to the right by any other cyclists; his left side was clear. He came from behind Cav, then tried to shut the door on him. He did it too soon, and the result was Cavendish hitting the deck.

You are doing your position no favors by these types of posts.
You are already disqualified since you didn't watch the race apparently. Still talking nonsense re: Demare. He almost took out Bouhanni, BEHIND BEHIND BEHIND BEHIND him by swerving all over the place.

It's absolutely telling that you find no fault with Demare, and his veering halfway across the road, but Sagan holding his line you somehow see as running Cav into the fence. Are you watching the same thing the majority of everyone else is?
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Old 07-04-17, 03:07 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
There's no point arguing with you. I see you around the forums...you are NEVER wrong, and can go all day arguing the most insignificant thing. As someone posted above, the consensus among the actual racers, and those involved in this race is that the jury was wrong, and the DQ was unfair.
You post a single picture that somehow validates your position, then I state a fact that is backed up by the race footage. So yeah, I'm right. Consensus among the actual racers and those involved? You got names?
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Old 07-04-17, 03:09 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
That picture tells nothing. They were next to each other in the middle of the road. Cav veered toward the right to get an open lane and Sagan followed him all the way into the wall.
Haha. Cav was behind Sagan. They both veered because that Frenchman was out of control and they moved over. But Sagan was ahead. He had the right of way. Cav forced himself in to a spot where there was no room and he head butted Sagan. That picture is very clear.
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Old 07-04-17, 03:11 PM
  #86  
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Why the jury is wrong on Sagan's DQ | VeloNews.com
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Old 07-04-17, 03:12 PM
  #87  
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A video is doing the rounds that Sagan may have been responsible for the earlier crash as well, bumping the rider who went down and caused Thomas to crash in the pile-up which followed.

Then there is Greipel who claims Sagan did the same thing yesterday, not keeping his line and bumping.

Then there is Cavendish who was surprised to hear Sagan was DQ'd. His response was that he really wants to maintain a good relationship with Peter and he really appreciated that Peter came to talk to him afterwards. He respected the decision of the judges, said he was a bit confused about why the elbow.

Just saying...

I think the best thing Sagan can do now is be humble, accept responsibility and move on.
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Old 07-04-17, 03:13 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Philly215 View Post
Haha. Cav was behind Sagan.
No he wasn't.
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Old 07-04-17, 03:13 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
You post a single picture that somehow validates your position, then I state a fact that is backed up by the race footage. So yeah, I'm right. Consensus among the actual racers and those involved? You got names?
I also posted a video. And just now a link from Velonews. Also Greipel apologized to Sagan for his initial reaction, and said the jury was too harsh.
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Old 07-04-17, 03:19 PM
  #90  
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What a stupid decision. This is like in car racing when you go for a gap that doesnt really exist. Will nearly always ends in tears.

The interest on watching the tour has gone down a lot.

And a french guy has the green jersey. What a coincidence.
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Old 07-04-17, 03:21 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
There's no point arguing with you.
And yet, you continue to argue with me. Hmmm.


I see you around the forums...you are NEVER wrong, and can go all day arguing the most insignificant thing.
It's true, I am usually right.

However, when someone does prove I'm wrong, I admit it. The trick is, they actually have to present sufficient evidence, and that's something you haven't done. Rather, you've posted photos that don't prove anything, and made wild prejudiced accusations. Sorry, but that's not persuasive.


As someone posted above, the consensus among the actual racers, and those involved in this race is that the jury was wrong, and the DQ was unfair.
"Someone said" is also not evidence.
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Old 07-04-17, 03:22 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
I also posted a video. And just now a link from Velonews. Also Greipel apologized to Sagan for his initial reaction, and said the jury was too harsh.
Greipel is one person, not a "consensus among actual racers and those involved". People can debate the punishment, but Sagan is guilty.

I also posted a video. Here it is again since you missed it. Start at 7:00, watch them next to each other in the middle of the road (no, Cav was not "behind"), then watch as Cav veers to the right to get open and Sagan follows him all the way to the wall. Yes, I know you won't admit you're wrong, but you are.


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Old 07-04-17, 03:32 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Greipel is one person, not a "consensus among actual racers and those involved". People can debate the punishment, but Sagan is guilty.

I also posted a video. Here it is again since you missed it. Start at 7:00, watch them next to each other in the middle of the road (no, Cav was not "behind"), then watch as Cav veers to the right to get open and Sagan follows him all the way to the wall. Yes, I know you won't admit you're wrong, but you are.


https://youtu.be/y9tphVXAOec
http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/ra...=cyclingweekly

Here is what Twitter is saying, most of it AGAINST Sagan's DQ, and many of these are actual racers, not just random people like you and me. And it is a CONSENSUS.
https://twitter.com/search?q=Sagan&src=tren


You post a video, I post a video. So now what.
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Old 07-04-17, 03:35 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
And yet, you continue to argue with me. Hmmm.



It's true, I am usually right.

However, when someone does prove I'm wrong, I admit it. The trick is, they actually have to present sufficient evidence, and that's something you haven't done. Rather, you've posted photos that don't prove anything, and made wild prejudiced accusations. Sorry, but that's not persuasive.



"Someone said" is also not evidence.
Buddy, you are ALLLLLLLLLL over the place! What you are quoting is from a response to someone else, not you. Again, see the Twitter reaction from EX PROS. Rando guys on the internet (me included) are less qualified than actual racers. Sorry, but you guys are wrong, it was my initial reaction, and backed up by professionals' opinions.
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Old 07-04-17, 03:37 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
You are already disqualified since you didn't watch the race apparently. Still talking nonsense re: Demare. He almost took out Bouhanni, BEHIND BEHIND BEHIND BEHIND him by swerving all over the place.

It's absolutely telling that you find no fault with Demare, and his veering halfway across the road, but Sagan holding his line you somehow see as running Cav into the fence. Are you watching the same thing the majority of everyone else is?
Yup. I watched the race, I watched the replays numerous times, including before posting.

In fact, if you watch Stage 3, you see Sagan do the same thing yesterday that Demare did today -- he swung over to his right, directly in front of Dan Martin. 1:39 on the video

Changing lines is fine. Shutting the door on a rider (like Sagan did to Cav) is fine. Slamming someone into the barriers is a bit more problematic.
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Old 07-04-17, 03:38 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
Here is what Twitter is saying
Twitter Well, I looked at your tweeter thingy, and most of the people posting on it are regular fans.

Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
You post a video, I post a video. So now what.
So now, both of our videos show that Sagan followed Cav all the way to the right until Cav was sent into the wall, and Sagan is DQ'd. That's what
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Old 07-04-17, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
Buddy, you are ALLLLLLLLLL over the place! What you are quoting is from a response to someone else, not you.
My apologies.

Still, I am happy to change my position... if provided with evidence. I can take opinions of riders into account, but their views have to be a tad more specific than 140 characters can usually provide. Did they think Sagan's action was justifiable? Do they believe his account? Do they think Sagan did the wrong thing, but got too harsh a punishment?
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Old 07-04-17, 03:41 PM
  #98  
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And thanks to Chris Boardman for expressing what I've been saying about Demare:

Interestingly, not said Sagan was innocent or that the judges wrong, I think I said inconsistent as Demare cut across Bouhanni, no penalty.
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Old 07-04-17, 03:44 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Twitter Well, I looked at your tweeter thingy, and most of the people posting on it are regular fans.



So now, both of our videos show that Sagan followed Cav all the way to the right until Cav was sent into the wall, and Sagan is DQ'd. That's what
OK, done talking to you. "Tweeter thing", LOL. I'm not even on Twitter, but that's the way the world works now. Did you actually read the other link I sent that had responses from actual ex pro sprinters? They communicate via Twitter, so not much I can do about that. If you wanna dismiss it, that's fine, but my point stands, and your dismissive attitude doesn't change it. You lose. Now don't you have some kids to yell at to get off your lawn?
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Old 07-04-17, 03:48 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
OK, done talking to you. "Tweeter thing", LOL. I'm not even on Twitter, but that's the way the world works now. Did you actually read the other link I sent that had responses from actual ex pro sprinters? They communicate via Twitter, so not much I can do about that. If you wanna dismiss it, that's fine, but my point stands, and your dismissive attitude doesn't change it. You lose. Now don't you have some kids to yell at to get off your lawn?
Some sprinters isn't a "consensus among actual racers and those involved". And most from what I saw were just complaining about the punishment, not the rule breaking. I'm not debating punishment. But Sagan did what he did and the video doesn't lie. He caused that crash, he had no reason to go that far to the right with Cav right there.

And stop taking it so personal. This is just the internet, dude.
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