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this is gonna get ugly

Old 07-04-17, 09:59 AM
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keg61
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this is gonna get ugly

Somebody has to start the Cav vs Sagan argument, it might as well be me.... it's been 30 years since I did any racing and yes I "only watch it on tv a few days a year" but it seemed pretty clear to me that there was not room for Cavendish to try to pass between Sagan and the barrier, he asked for trouble and got what he asked for
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Old 07-04-17, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by keg61 View Post
it seemed pretty clear to me that there was not room for cavendish to try to pass between sagan and the barrier, he asked for trouble and got what he asked for
+1.
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Old 07-04-17, 10:11 AM
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This will be the Contador Schleck mechanical argument of this year's race!
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Old 07-04-17, 10:18 AM
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Looks like both were to blame, Cavendish tried to force his pass but Sagan didn't need to flick his elbow like that.
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Old 07-04-17, 10:29 AM
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This is interesting. Robbie McEwan was saying he thought Sagan wasn't to blame when he was calling the race live this morning, but now just tweeted that after watching the airiel view several times thinks he should be DQ'd.
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Old 07-04-17, 10:31 AM
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I haven't seen any video that shows the elbow contacted anything. I think the elbow was a protective reflex when he sensed contact with another bike. I think Sagan wasn't cutting Cavendish off, he was in the process of attempting to go around another bike.

Cavendish's team rep said he was elbowed off his bike by Sagan. I think that is BS.
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Old 07-04-17, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by keg61 View Post
Somebody has to start the Cav vs Sagan argument, it might as well be me.... it's been 30 years since I did any racing and yes I "only watch it on tv a few days a year" but it seemed pretty clear to me that there was not room for Cavendish to try to pass between Sagan and the barrier, he asked for trouble and got what he asked for
Cav had room or he wouldn't have attempted it, he's not stupid. You don't become the best in the world by not knowing your surroundings. If you really raced you would know that. It was a classic elbow throw.

And for the record Sagan is my favorite racer.
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Old 07-04-17, 10:44 AM
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cav did not have room.. if you watch the tape.. you will see cav try to head in to sagan before he tries to make forward progress .. now.. sagan may have moved on cav.. but the first blood was from cav.. trying to take sagan off his line... there was no room.. but cav tried to make room.. headbutts sagan.. and when that did nothing to take sagan off his line... cav charged in.. and im pretty sure that sagan will be taken off the tour... but cav did not respect the sprint.. sagan was rock solid once he was headbutted.. at that point cav should have thrown out the anchor... but.. it looks bad for both... i can see it going either way.. too bad.. i like seeing sagan race..
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Old 07-04-17, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by scuzzo View Post
cav did not have room.. if you watch the tape..
Here's the tape in slow mo. Freeze it at 0.04. Cav is making his pass, his line is wide open with plenty of room.

At 0.05-0.07 Sagan moves into Cav's line, there's nobody on his left pushing him over, he wasn't trying to pass anyone, it was deliberate.

Freeze it at 0.10. Sagan is leaned way over to the right, his head is above his right shifter. There is nobody directly to his front he would be trying to pass. His shoulder and elbow are stuck out to the side at the same instant Cav goes down. Sorry, but there's no rational way to defend Sagan.

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Old 07-04-17, 10:47 AM
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I suspect Sagen will get tossed, but he is such a popular rider they'll lose viewership if he's gone.
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Old 07-04-17, 10:47 AM
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Penalty is BS. It's 100% Cavendish's fault for forcing himself in to a spot that didn't exist. What was Sagan supposed to do, stop and move over? F that.
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Old 07-04-17, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Philly215 View Post
Penalty is BS. It's 100% Cavendish's fault for forcing himself in to a spot that didn't exist. What was Sagan supposed to do, stop and move over? F that.
Wrong. Cav's line was wide open.
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Old 07-04-17, 10:58 AM
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Sagan is out of the tour.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Cav had room or he wouldn't have attempted it, he's not stupid. You don't become the best in the world by not knowing your surroundings. If you really raced you would know that. It was a classic elbow throw.

And for the record Sagan is my favorite racer.
At what time in the video should I stop to see elbow contact?
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Old 07-04-17, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Lakerat View Post
At what time in the video should I stop to see elbow contact?
Maybe at the time Cav goes into the wall? Do you think the wind blew him over? Maybe some extraterrestrial force?

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Old 07-04-17, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Sagan is out of the tour.
I just read demoted to last place on the day and loss of thirty seconds.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by DLBroox View Post
I just read demoted to last place on the day and loss of thirty seconds.
Peter Sagan disqualified from Tour de France | Cyclingnews.com
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Old 07-04-17, 11:12 AM
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Right decision, but yet another negative TdF story.

No surprise no US sponsors. Tragic stuff.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:15 AM
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Cavendish initiated contact before the elbow came out.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:15 AM
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I must have read what their first decision was before they analyzed the tapes.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Maybe at the time Cav goes into the wall? Do you think the wind blew him over? Maybe some extraterrestrial force?

Don't see elbow contact in that picture, which means you can't find any. His elbow is ahead of anything it could contact.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Lakerat View Post
Don't see elbow contact in that picture, which means you can't find any.
Aside from the fact that their legs are touching in the millisecond of that frame shot, why do you think Cav crashed? His wheels aren't running over anything. And it's not even debatable that his line was wide open before Sagan veered over into him.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Lakerat View Post
Don't see elbow contact in that picture, which means you can't find any.
Cavendish shifted to the left and contacted Sagan with his shoulder, then the elbow came out.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Wrong. Cav's line was wide open.
Lol no. He tried to fit in a closing hole. He was wreckless and careless.
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Old 07-04-17, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Philly215 View Post
Lol no. He tried to fit in a closing hole. He was wreckless and careless.
Well if you watch the slow mo video I posted above, freeze it at 0.04 and still fail to see his line was WIDE open, not "closing" then you'll never see it. But obviously the race officials agree with me.
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