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View Poll Results: Who caused the crash today in stage 4?
Peter Sagan 41 21.81%
Mark Cavendish 78 41.49%
Neither, rubbin is racing 48 25.53%
Lance Armstrong 21 11.17%
Voters: 188. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-08-17, 12:09 AM   #51
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I accidently hit Sagan so discount 1 from him. I honestly don't know but think it was Cavendish at least just as much. I do think expelling Sagan from the TDF was a very stupid move.
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Old 07-10-17, 06:08 AM   #52
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Both bear partial responsibility. Cav took a huge risk to sprint up the narrow gap. Sagan aggressively tried to block a competitor.
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Old 07-10-17, 07:54 AM   #53
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I voted Cav.
Based on the UCIs ruling on Sagan, Demare also should have been sanctioned for being all over the road in that sprint.....of course now it no longer matters (as of Sunday's stage).
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Old 07-11-17, 11:18 AM   #54
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Watching the whole thing frame-by-frame, there was no way that Cav could've gotten past Sagan, elbow or no. In fact, it looks pretty clear that Cav hit Sagan's shoulder before the elbow came out at all. Looks like Sagan was moving to his right, but that seems to be in response to Démare moving left, opening a lane for Sagan, who was looked to be half a length ahead of Cav.

No doubt, in my mind, at least, that the elbow was in response to Cav's initial contact, not the cause of the contact, and certainly not what sent Cav into the barrier.

Considering that, I'm not even sure that relegation, or even a time or points penalty, would have been appropriate. Certainly not disqualification.
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Old 07-11-17, 01:45 PM   #55
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All I know is that every sprint since Cav went down and out has been clean as a whistle.

Coincidence? No. Its just Cav being Cav...
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Old 07-15-17, 12:23 AM   #56
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Re: Sagan moving right and pinching Cavendish: Sagan was Ahead of cav. And Sagan was trying to get into Demare’s slipstream. Cav was also trying to get to Demare’s wheel.

Sagan had every right to go for Demare’s wheel—he was ahead on the road. Cav made the decision to go for it,—to Contest that space behind Demare. He was behind, but he tried to speed up and squeeze in.

Both riders saw Demare as their ticket to victory—and either would have been right. Had either gotten to his wheel, Demare would have been by far the best lead-out.

As I see it—and I have watched all the video extensively too, and without trying to make one or the other a hero—they are both cycling heroes to me—Cav hits the barrier (which angles out at the bottom) well before he is even halfway level with Sagan. It doesn’t look like he has hit yet, because the barrier angles away from the road at the top, so he has room for his shoulders but his foot or wheel have already hit.

That is why Cavendish is at an angle and shouting in the photo where Cav’s brake hood is hooking Sagan’s arm—Cavendish has already hit the barrier and bounced into Sagan’s hip, he is out of control and he knows he is going to crash.

EDIT: a reinspection shows that Cavendish did not hit the barrier first---he hit Sagan first and that was why he was leaning at an unsavavable angle before he got next to Sagan.

His shifter hooks Sagan’s arm and pulls it sharply. That is interpreted as “The Elbow” but I am not sure if there was any force behind it or not. Sagan could have felt his arm being pulled off his bars by the force of Cavendish falling, and pushed can away to stay up, or he could have tried to push Cav away before his arm was completely ripped off the bars. Either way, no foul.

Then Cavendish hits one of those protruding triangles after he bounces off Sagan and that just finished it, but he was already well on the way down in the photo where his bars hook Sagan’s arm.

It sounds like tinfoil-hat conspiracy theory to say the ASO ejected Sagan to give Demare a clearer field—until you look at what happened with Bardet, Bennett, and Uran and the magic expanding feed zone in Stage 12.

The UCI/ASO got caught trying to straight-up cheat and give penalties to two riders while protecting Bardet’s win (French rider, French team, eve of French independence day.) When video proved they were lying and cheating, they suddenly “recalled” that they had changed the rules 24 hours before, and no one got a penalty.

I love the racing, but anyone who thinks the UCI and ASO play it straight .... well, of course they do, and Lance Armstrong never failed a drug test because he never doped.

When he confessed, he must have been lying because he was tired of having a record number of TdF wins and enough sponsorship dollars that he could live like a king.

Last edited by Maelochs; 07-15-17 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 12-06-17, 06:11 AM   #57
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UCI Now Says Peter Sagan's Disqualifying Tour de France Elbow Was 'Unintentional'

World champion Peter Sagan and the UCI, pro cycling's governing body, agreed on Tuesday to end the legal dispute over the rider's disqualification from this year's Tour de France.
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Old 12-06-17, 03:57 PM   #58
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I'm glad to see UCI doing that. Out of the different camera shots they played back right after the crash there was one they showed only once or twice. It was a view from the finish line and seemed to show Cavendish was already well into the process of falling before Sagan's elbow came out presumably as a result of Cavendish falling against his bike.

The suspension seemed too harsh in light of that footage. However the argument about holding a line to the finish during the sprint is still one that needs some work and discussion. As well UCI, or the TDF and other race organizers need to rethink the barricades they use near the finish line and other key parts of the course.
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Old 12-06-17, 05:23 PM   #59
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Old 12-07-17, 12:18 AM   #60
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So the jury said it was unfortunate but it was unintentional meaning the incident did happen, but... what's unfortunate about it, that Sagan threw an elbow or that Cav hit the wall because of it or that half the fans pretended it never happened?
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