Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

Praise for Team Sky?

Old 07-10-17, 11:32 AM
  #26  
radripperaj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Shadco View Post
Au contraire

At this point Froome is 1:45 ahead of Martin, he put 1:15 into Martin after the fall plus the little time bonus he got at the end.

Froomy is to be guarded by the peloton while Martin is just cannon fodder to be left behind?

Martin was back up and riding in seconds not minutes all they had to do was wait or a few and once notified by their director he was up and coming they easily could have waited for him.

Wasn't there a few potential threats up the road when Froomy's battery gave up?

.

Im pretty sure the big difference is the attack wasnt started until after Froome had his mechanical. However, when it came to Dan Martin the attacks had already begun down the mountain before he fell.
radripperaj is offline  
Old 07-10-17, 11:33 AM
  #27  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,190
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2909 Post(s)
Liked 95 Times in 72 Posts
Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
It is basically a given that any English language commentator with an English accent automatically wants a 3 some with Froome and Cav...and will talk about them even when they aren't racing
+1

It was the same way back when the Texan was dominating the sport, and I suspect it will end similarly.
noodle soup is offline  
Old 07-10-17, 11:37 AM
  #28  
Marcus_Ti 
Frozen Solid.
 
Marcus_Ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 4,669

Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1922 Post(s)
Liked 56 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
+1

It was the same way back when the Texan was dominating the sport, and I suspect it will end similarly.
I can get some degree of national pride...But I don't get how these guys all fail to notice they're talking about people who aren't even racing. At least they stopped talking about Cav having Mono now...
Marcus_Ti is online now  
Old 07-10-17, 01:26 PM
  #29  
DLBroox
Senior Member
 
DLBroox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 961

Bikes: Bianchi San Jose, Dahon Mu Uno

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I think there's a major difference between going downhill reacting to attacks and being in the thick of it and launching an attack when you're all chugging up a hill and a guy raises his hand for a mechanical.

Launching, to me, is the operative word.
DLBroox is offline  
Old 07-10-17, 01:44 PM
  #30  
asindc 
Senior Member
 
asindc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hyattsville, MD
Posts: 137

Bikes: 1993 Trek Antelope 850 mountain bike; 2002 LeMond Alpe d'Huez; 2005 Orbea Onix TDF; 2015 Bianchi Infinito.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Shadco View Post
.

So why didn't Froome sit up and wait for Martin?

.
Originally Posted by bikecrate View Post
I'm not fond of the "gentleman's agreement" to not attack the leader. One problem is Team Sky is so dominant that there is almost no way for anyone else to win except to profit from their mistakes and bad fortune. It seems to me Sky likes to take advantage of these unwritten rule and not reciprocate.

This.
__________________
1993 Trek Antelope 850 mountain bike. /// 2002 LeMond Alpe d'Huez. /// 2005 Orbea Onix Ultegra. /// 2015 Bianchi Infinito CV.
asindc is offline  
Old 07-10-17, 02:48 PM
  #31  
bbbean 
Senior Member
 
bbbean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,060

Bikes: Giant Propel, Cannondale SuperX, Univega Alpina Ultima

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by 2cam16 View Post
And they did it again! Why oh why do they have to have this gentleman's thing? It's freaking racing! You're there to win, not to give it to the yellow! You may never get that chance again. Areu had every right to attack and leave Froome behind,IMO. Forget those old "rules". This is 2017.
Le Tour is not a one day classic, and these pros aren't racing just for 1 season.
__________________

Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton

bbbean is offline  
Old 07-10-17, 03:09 PM
  #32  
Flip Flop Rider
Senior Member
 
Flip Flop Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 1,070

Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 390 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times in 12 Posts
Some riders seem to get more respect than others and Froome definitely makes the list

Sky seems to be the strongest in every stage, and I suspect Froome wins again

As far as the unwritten rules and nuances of the tour, I think you have to be European to understand it fully
Flip Flop Rider is offline  
Old 07-10-17, 04:20 PM
  #33  
Shadco
Resident PIA
 
Shadco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: City of Oaks, NC
Posts: 338

Bikes: Litespeed Arenberg, Huffy Strider, Trek 4700, Gunnar Roadie

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
.

I grew up on Rik van Looy, and Roger de Vlaeminck. I think I get the nuance. I don't think Froomy would enjoy going up against them or the cannibal.

30 seconds of holding up would have let them know Martin was up and racing.

.
Shadco is offline  
Old 07-11-17, 08:56 AM
  #34  
OBoile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,260
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 727 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 30 Posts
Originally Posted by DLBroox View Post
I think there's a major difference between going downhill reacting to attacks and being in the thick of it and launching an attack when you're all chugging up a hill and a guy raises his hand for a mechanical.

Launching, to me, is the operative word.
Yep. Some people here just dislike Froome enough that they won't let themselves understand the difference.
OBoile is online now  
Old 07-11-17, 09:51 AM
  #35  
MKahrl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 1,092

Bikes: Rivendell A.Homer Hilsen, Paramount P13, (4) Falcon bicycles, Mondia Special, Rodriguez Tandem

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
A take no prisoners approach does not work as well in bicycle stage racing. A one-day or a stage race involves a great deal of cooperation between members of rival teams both in the peloton and in small breakaway groups that is not found in other team sports. Short term alliances are made that sometimes last minutes or hours with understood terminations.

Many of these unwritten rules are there to make life more livable and safer like not attacking while in the feed zone or during natural breaks. Because these guys race shoulder to shoulder all season long someone who violated these rules in the past found their lives made more difficult in future races when they needed lunch or were suffering gastro-intestinal distress.
MKahrl is offline  
Old 07-11-17, 09:55 AM
  #36  
Marcus_Ti 
Frozen Solid.
 
Marcus_Ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 4,669

Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1922 Post(s)
Liked 56 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by MKahrl View Post
A take no prisoners approach does not work as well in bicycle stage racing. A one-day or a stage race involves a great deal of cooperation between members of rival teams both in the peloton and in small breakaway groups that is not found in other team sports. Short term alliances are made that sometimes last minutes or hours with understood terminations.

Many of these unwritten rules are there to make life more livable and safer like not attacking while in the feed zone or during natural breaks. Because these guys race shoulder to shoulder all season long someone who violated these rules in the past found their lives made more difficult in future races when they needed lunch or were suffering gastro-intestinal distress.
And that is honestly why bicycle stage racing is so boring and has a problem getting and keeping sponsors...and also why everything that happens before the last 30km of a 200+km day is nearly irrelevant. May as well not even bother riding the first 170km, because no one actually races.
Marcus_Ti is online now  
Old 07-11-17, 10:08 AM
  #37  
HardyWeinberg
GATC
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: south Puget Sound
Posts: 8,707
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 451 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by MKahrl View Post
A take no prisoners approach does not work as well in bicycle stage racing. A one-day or a stage race involves a great deal of cooperation between members of rival teams both in the peloton and in small breakaway groups that is not found in other team sports. Short term alliances are made that sometimes last minutes or hours with understood terminations.
So maybe Aru made amends by having Fuglsang and himself tow Froome to the finish line to deliver him a 4 second bonus?
HardyWeinberg is offline  
Old 07-11-17, 04:01 PM
  #38  
DLBroox
Senior Member
 
DLBroox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 961

Bikes: Bianchi San Jose, Dahon Mu Uno

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
And that is honestly why bicycle stage racing is so boring and has a problem getting and keeping sponsors...and also why everything that happens before the last 30km of a 200+km day is nearly irrelevant. May as well not even bother riding the first 170km, because no one actually races.
I guess that's why millions of people watch it.

Here comes the Tour de France, the world's greatest bike race - Business Insider
DLBroox is offline  
Old 07-11-17, 04:35 PM
  #39  
BPCycler
Member
 
BPCycler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Maryland
Posts: 48

Bikes: 2013 Giant Sedona DX (Aluxx 6061)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
And that is honestly why bicycle stage racing is so boring and has a problem getting and keeping sponsors...and also why everything that happens before the last 30km of a 200+km day is nearly irrelevant. May as well not even bother riding the first 170km, because no one actually races.
This is my first year watching it. I DVR it and watch at night. I'll fast forward to about the 2/3's point and watch from there. Just can't invest 5 hours a day, 30 hours a week on a race. I do enjoy it just don't have those kinds of hours to devote to it.
BPCycler is offline  
Old 07-11-17, 04:42 PM
  #40  
HardyWeinberg
GATC
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: south Puget Sound
Posts: 8,707
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 451 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by BPCycler View Post
This is my first year watching it. I DVR it and watch at night. I'll fast forward to about the 2/3's point and watch from there. Just can't invest 5 hours a day, 30 hours a week on a race. I do enjoy it just don't have those kinds of hours to devote to it.
Scenery today is spectacular, I paused the recording when I had to leave to go to work this morning, will pick it up tonight if there's nothing better on. (and there probably won't be)
HardyWeinberg is offline  
Old 07-11-17, 09:40 PM
  #41  
MKahrl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 1,092

Bikes: Rivendell A.Homer Hilsen, Paramount P13, (4) Falcon bicycles, Mondia Special, Rodriguez Tandem

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
And that is honestly why bicycle stage racing is so boring and has a problem getting and keeping sponsors...and also why everything that happens before the last 30km of a 200+km day is nearly irrelevant. May as well not even bother riding the first 170km, because no one actually races.
There is plenty of racing going on before the last 30km of the race if you are paying attention. Who is in the breakaway from what teams, who will pull and who won't, who in breakaway can sprint and who would do well to breakaway from the breakaway. For the peloton, what teams must expend effort to pull the breakaway in and why. And there is always the possibility the peloton misjudges and fails to catch the breakaway.

I can understand your point of view. I know nothing about basketball and therefore only watch the last ten minutes of a game. Before that it's just one team has the ball then the other team does.

The business model of bike racing and how sponsors value the return on their investment is completely different from nother sports and would probably make an interesting discussion in its own thread.
MKahrl is offline  
Old 07-12-17, 05:54 AM
  #42  
hokiefyd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Northern Shenandoah Valley
Posts: 2,191

Bikes: 2018 Redline Zander, 2018 Giant Roam 2, 2015 Trek Verve 3, 1997 Trek 750, 1969 Peugeot PO-18

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 740 Post(s)
Liked 46 Times in 42 Posts
Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
And that is honestly why bicycle stage racing is so boring and has a problem getting and keeping sponsors...and also why everything that happens before the last 30km of a 200+km day is nearly irrelevant. May as well not even bother riding the first 170km, because no one actually races.
I think this is true of many "marathon" situations, though. Despite having some "sprint" sections throughout, this type of race is more of a marathon than it is a sprint. Because of the distance involved, the human body can't physically or mentally RACE the entire time. You have to moderate your energy and not use up all your stuff early on.

It's as much about mental energy as it is physical energy. That's why a race over such a distance like this is a test of all aspects of a cyclist. You have to have the legs. You have to have the equipment. And you have to have the mental mettle to be able to ration and manage your energy to survive the whole stage (and maybe even come across the line first). Multiply that by, how many stages are there...21? An incredible test of physical and mental stamina.

Racing isn't about speed. Racing is about finishing first. They're different.
hokiefyd is offline  
Old 07-12-17, 06:16 AM
  #43  
whitemax
Senior Member
 
whitemax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,136
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Aren't they paid to get from point A to point B first? Think the sponsors care about a rival having a mechanical?
whitemax is offline  
Old 07-12-17, 08:24 AM
  #44  
DLBroox
Senior Member
 
DLBroox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 961

Bikes: Bianchi San Jose, Dahon Mu Uno

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by whitemax View Post
Aren't they paid to get from point A to point B first? Think the sponsors care about a rival having a mechanical?
That's an oversimplification of the sport. There is so much going on other than the GC race.

And sponsors like when their guys are out front in a break even if we all know the break will get caught. They also like when a guy attacks off the front when he doesn't actually have a chance in hell on a mountain stage. The sponsor's name gets called every time a rider's name gets called. They are billboards.

But oh how I love it when a guy is in the break and then goes for it and actually wins the stage!
DLBroox is offline  
Old 07-12-17, 10:01 AM
  #45  
whitemax
Senior Member
 
whitemax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,136
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DLBroox View Post
That's an oversimplification of the sport. There is so much going on other than the GC race.

And sponsors like when their guys are out front in a break even if we all know the break will get caught. They also like when a guy attacks off the front when he doesn't actually have a chance in hell on a mountain stage. The sponsor's name gets called every time a rider's name gets called. They are billboards.

But oh how I love it when a guy is in the break and then goes for it and actually wins the stage!
Perhaps, but at the end of the day, it's the guy that wins. Aru is a close contender and if he were to win, it would be his name to go in the history books without nary a mention of what his ethics were.

True about the sponsors being billboards but they too would like to have the winner to represent their brand.

I too love it when a breakaway guy is able to thwart the peloton and win. No spoiler here but todays stage was awesome.
whitemax is offline  
Old 07-12-17, 10:21 AM
  #46  
dstrong 
Senior Member
 
dstrong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Awesome, Austin, TX
Posts: 4,114

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Interloc Impala, ParkPre Image C6

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 171 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by whitemax View Post
Aru is a close contender and if he were to win, it would be his name to go in the history books without nary a mention of what his ethics were.
Not sure Lance would agree!
__________________

2014 Specialized Roubaix2003 Interloc Impala2007 ParkPre Image C6 (RIP)

dstrong is offline  
Old 07-12-17, 01:57 PM
  #47  
whitemax
Senior Member
 
whitemax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,136
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dstrong View Post
Not sure Lance would agree!

Doping is quite a different offense wouldn't you agree?
whitemax is offline  
Old 07-12-17, 03:55 PM
  #48  
dstrong 
Senior Member
 
dstrong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Awesome, Austin, TX
Posts: 4,114

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Interloc Impala, ParkPre Image C6

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 171 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by whitemax View Post
Doping is quite a different offense wouldn't you agree?
Isn't cheating a question of ethics?
__________________

2014 Specialized Roubaix2003 Interloc Impala2007 ParkPre Image C6 (RIP)

dstrong is offline  
Old 07-12-17, 06:43 PM
  #49  
whitemax
Senior Member
 
whitemax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,136
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dstrong View Post
Isn't cheating a question of ethics?
No doubt but Armstrong was stripped of his wins for doping, not for attacking during mechanicals, crashes, feed zones etc. Who cares what he would think anyway?
whitemax is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
bobonker
Road Bike Marketplace
2
08-18-17 11:53 PM
woodcycl
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
13
03-17-15 09:58 PM
blargman
Road Cycling
0
06-17-12 09:36 PM
bangkok
Folding Bikes
0
01-08-06 01:33 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.