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Is the cure to "Doping" old age?

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Old 11-14-17, 08:32 AM
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mr,grumpy 
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Is the cure to "Doping" old age?

I have been watching a lot of YouTube videos lately about doping at the highest levels of cycling. It's funny. The older interviews with the cyclist who were "all doing it" from 5-10 years ago all had that same "what are you going to do about it? It's just the way that it is" kind of attitude about them. Some of the more recent interviews have the old time champs talking abut their kids or friends kids coming into the top ranks and how they want hem to not feel that they have to take PE drugs to succeed. Is this influence from the Emerati of the sport the tipping point for the future of clean cycling?
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Old 11-14-17, 08:53 AM
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There is no cure to "doping." It will be part of cycling until the end of time. It has been there since the beginning. Ever come home from a ride and had a beer? I know I have. The new dopers are just better at doing the same thing.
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Old 11-14-17, 09:21 AM
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I agree there will always be doping of some sort. A shame for those in sports that do stay clean.

I don't really know which way to lean. The discussion you hear is very one sided, against any and all forms. With the regulations being so punitive, no current rider is going to truly express their feelings except those that are truly clean. So again the discussion is biased.

Sometimes I wonder if the only concern should be for methods that are truly harmful to health. But then again, compared to the likely hood of dying in a car accident, might riding in cars need to be banned? Though that's not doping.
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Old 11-14-17, 09:23 AM
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Need cycling dope free. With the regulations being so punitive, no current rider is going to truly express their feelings except those that are truly clean. So again the discussion is biased.
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Old 11-14-17, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
There is no cure to "doping." It will be part of cycling until the end of time. It has been there since the beginning. Ever come home from a ride and had a beer? I know I have. The new dopers are just better at doing the same thing.
Agreed. I can cite Eddy Merckx getting caught doping. Also recall Tommy Simpson dying on the bike from heart failure on Mt Ventoux. I wonder if it was due to Amphetamines. It seemed to be the popular drug in the 1960's. Whatever it was, dying on a bike without a crash ain't natural...
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Old 11-15-17, 10:58 AM
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The banned list needs to be much smaller, so much that riders are certain that using any of those items, they will be caught and punished. Once that works, then add to the list. Right now, it is too big.

Don't rely on anyone's ethics or morals. A "just say no" campaign will not work.

Make penalties smaller and certain. Do not consider intent - it really does not matter if you accidentally gained an advantage.

Eliminate TUEs. There are too many loop holes. 23 of the last TdF wins have been won by riders using banned substances. Most via TUEs - Froome, Wiggins etc. If a rider cannot perform without needing drug help, they are a less capable winner. Cruel sounding, but the alternative is not working so well.

Right now...Those that don't want to be involved in it the PED thing exit the sport before it becomes an issue. I think trying to be a pro and not willing to play the game as other pros do is nieve. Just stay away.
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Old 11-15-17, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
...Sometimes I wonder if the only concern should be for methods that are truly harmful to health.
Trouble is, it isn’t about either-or, it’s a matter of dosages, ramping up and phasing out. Balancing this against that.

A course of PEDS that is ”safe” for the guy with the discipline and lab backup can be sketchy for a guy from a poorer team and outright lethal for the cat-whatever rider trying to do like the pros.

I Sweden some years ago there was an increased influx, accessibility and price drop on steroids.
They’d been available earlier too, but then at greater cost and effort.
The guys who got to them were pretty dedicated already.
Most of them managed quite well.
But suddenly they became available also to the casual gym goer.
And the cardio clinics started getting badly sick patients that didn’t fit the charts.
It wasn’t that much that these guys were overdosing, more simply mis managing their use.
Everything from taking the stuff but not doing the workouts to missing one day and doubling up on the next etc etc.
Any action that widens the controlled use of a substance will also widen the uncontrolled use.
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Old 12-11-17, 02:52 PM
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You can say that about anything. Mismanage a corner and you can get hurt, or die.
I'm 100% for banning what can and will be controlled.
I was looking at the recent bad guy list http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/C...EN_English.pdf and there are a few things that are being caught. That of course does not say what is being used, just caught. So that says to me the other stuff is either not being used, or not catch-able.
Start with a small list that can be controlled, and expand from there.
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Old 12-15-17, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ptempel View Post
Agreed. I can cite Eddy Merckx getting caught doping. Also recall Tommy Simpson dying on the bike from heart failure on Mt Ventoux. I wonder if it was due to Amphetamines. It seemed to be the popular drug in the 1960's. Whatever it was, dying on a bike without a crash ain't natural...
Amphetamine and dehydration. He wasn't the only one who fell off his bike under similar conditions using this combo, but he's the only one who was able to drive his body beyond its absolute physical limits.

One side affect of Amphetamines is a higher body temperature. Charly Gaul used to excel in the snowy mountain passes when everyone else was retreating to the team cars, but he was also known to hop off his bike in the middle of a hot race to jump in a town fountain to cool off.

Keith
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Old 12-18-17, 12:49 PM
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The cure for doping is to lift all restrictions for professional cyclists. Allow them to use whatever they deem suitable. That will encourage the development of PEDs with fewer health risks. No need for sneaky, under the table stuff, dabbling in basement labs, or taking harmful drugs out of desperation because the more effective and safer drugs have been banned.

As with automobile racing, there may be trickle down benefits to the general population. A key to a successful and sustainable universal health program of some kind is to encourage preventive health care and maintenance. Perhaps dropping restrictions for pro sports would lead to a safer and more effective treatment for asthma that would benefit everyone.

Professional cycling is a business. These aren't role models and professional athletes know what they're getting themselves into. It's a perfect opportunity to test the theory that the free market always sorts out these problems.
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Old 12-18-17, 02:06 PM
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If you think the cure for doping is old age, I take it you've never seen a M45+ 1/2/3 race.
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