Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-07-17, 10:55 AM   #1
kcblair
Old Legs
Thread Starter
 
kcblair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Mass.
Bikes: '80 Strayvaigin, '84 Ciocc Alle-Shimano 105, '90 Concorde Astore-Campy Athena,85 Bridgestone 500/Suntour, 2017 Raleigh Merit 1
Posts: 662
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Sagan was completely exonerated

ROADBIKERIDER has the news release. "All parties agreed that "the crash was an unfortunate and unintentional race incident and that the UCI Commissaires made their decision based on their best judgment in the circumstances."KB
kcblair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-17, 11:04 AM   #2
Flip Flop Rider
Senior Member
 
Flip Flop Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850
Posts: 404
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 131 Post(s)
not in cycling's best interest to make a villain out of Sagan. he blocked with his elbow as a reaction to Cavendish's pass attempt. again, imo it was a reaction not a conscious action

they can say what they want, you don't throw your elbow out like that when racing in close quarters

still hate that he didn't get to finish the tour
Flip Flop Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-17, 11:10 AM   #3
AlmostTrick
Yabba-Dabba-Doo!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bedrock, IL
Bikes: 1968 Schwinn Orange Krate, 5 speed stick shift
Posts: 5,520
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 459 Post(s)
AlmostTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-17, 11:20 AM   #4
woodcraft
Senior Member
 
woodcraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nor Cal
Bikes:
Posts: 2,751
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 449 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
not in cycling's best interest to make a villain out of Sagan. he blocked with his elbow as a reaction to Cavendish's pass attempt. again, imo it was a reaction not a conscious action

they can say what they want, you don't throw your elbow out like that when racing in close quarters

still hate that he didn't get to finish the tour



Perhaps you haven't watched some of the hours of youtube slo-mo analysis.
woodcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-17, 11:47 AM   #5
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Posts: 4,710
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 767 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
not in cycling's best interest to make a villain out of Sagan. he blocked with his elbow as a reaction to Cavendish's pass attempt. again, imo it was a reaction not a conscious action

they can say what they want, you don't throw your elbow out like that when racing in close quarters

still hate that he didn't get to finish the tour
I'm guessing you didn't see the entire footage starting long before the famous last seconds and Cavendish's crash (and thar footage taken from in front). This started with Sagan on the French rider's wheel almost at the center of the wide finishiing stretch. That fottage was taken from the left side of the road. You can just barely see Cavendish next to the far right barriers even with Sagan but several bike lengths to the right. The French rider with Sagan on his wheel came way, way over to box Cavendish in.

Yes, Sagan did nothing intentional to harm Cavendish but: Cavendish has established his lane long before and Sagan did not remotely hold his line. Cavendish established his lane maybe half a minute before and Sagan moved over 15 feet or more. Yes Sagan was ahead of Cavendish but they were overlapped the entire time. That space belonged to Cavendish and he was under no obligation to yield. (And Cavendish being as fierce a competitor as he is and basically a feral cat, he didn't and instead pushed Sagan as hard as he could to keep from crashing. Sadly for Cavendish, Saga was a little bigger, stronger and didn't move.)

Sagan was disqualified for not holding his line and causing real injury to another rider, knocking that rider out of the Tour. We can argue the penalty but DSQ is not unreasonable. Sagan served his DSQ. This latest does not exonerate him. All it does is put this to bed.

Ben
79pmooney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-17, 11:56 AM   #6
Homebrew01
Super Moderator
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Posts: 20,437
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 517 Post(s)
Moved from "General" forum.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.

FYI: http://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Homebrew01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-17, 02:44 PM   #7
Bat56
Senior Member
 
Bat56's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St.Paul, MN
Bikes:
Posts: 1,751
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
Perhaps you haven't watched some of the hours of youtube slo-mo analysis.
Now would be a good time to link to the best.
Bat56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-17, 03:36 PM   #8
woodcraft
Senior Member
 
woodcraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nor Cal
Bikes:
Posts: 2,751
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 449 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bat56 View Post
Now would be a good time to link to the best.




Disagree with 79pmooney- Cavendish was not overlapped w/ Sagan the whole time. He came from behind. It makes no difference what line he established 30 seconds before & 5 bike lengths behind.

After moving right, Sagan doesn't get closer to barriers until Cavendish pushes into him.

Last edited by woodcraft; 12-07-17 at 03:40 PM.
woodcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-17, 04:57 PM   #9
Lazyass
Senior Member
 
Lazyass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NC
Bikes: Lots
Posts: 6,538
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 940 Post(s)
I don't need the UCI to tell me what I saw with my own eyes.
Lazyass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-17, 06:00 PM   #10
kcblair
Old Legs
Thread Starter
 
kcblair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Mass.
Bikes: '80 Strayvaigin, '84 Ciocc Alle-Shimano 105, '90 Concorde Astore-Campy Athena,85 Bridgestone 500/Suntour, 2017 Raleigh Merit 1
Posts: 662
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
First time I've seen that breakdown. Why couldn't UCI do this prior to taking action ? Sad. KB
kcblair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-17, 06:05 PM   #11
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 15,356
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3957 Post(s)
It is a little late for saying "oops".

Had they given him a penalty of an hour or something, then he would have been able to continue riding, sprint finishes might still have become more cordial, and they could have argued while the race was still on whether or not it was an accident, there was intent, or if Sagan even elbowed Cavendish. Perhaps scheduled a mini hearing during the following rest day.

Two riders plunged into a single hole. The lead rider on the road side came out, the following rider on the wall side didn't. If I remember right, it wasn't as much that Sagan was moving right, but the whole field was moving right, and if anybody should be criticized for not holding the lane, it would have been the left most rider of the whole pack (oh, and one rider that madly cut left to avoid the whole thing, cutting across several others).
CliffordK is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-17, 07:25 PM   #12
redlude97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 2,400
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 733 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
It is a little late for saying "oops".

Had they given him a penalty of an hour or something, then he would have been able to continue riding, sprint finishes might still have become more cordial, and they could have argued while the race was still on whether or not it was an accident, there was intent, or if Sagan even elbowed Cavendish. Perhaps scheduled a mini hearing during the following rest day.

Two riders plunged into a single hole. The lead rider on the road side came out, the following rider on the wall side didn't. If I remember right, it wasn't as much that Sagan was moving right, but the whole field was moving right, and if anybody should be criticized for not holding the lane, it would have been the left most rider of the whole pack (oh, and one rider that madly cut left to avoid the whole thing, cutting across several others).
Not to rehash again but Cav tried to squeeze into a hole he left open in the first place and continued to butt his way up, doesn't matter if only sagan moved right, he was ahead.
redlude97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-17, 08:03 PM   #13
jon c. 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Bikes:
Posts: 2,900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 501 Post(s)
Didn't we already have this argument? Viewing all the shots and angles, I find the conclusion that Sagan was wholly innocent to be inescapable. It was a bad call.
jon c. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-17, 08:38 PM   #14
Darth_Firebolt
Pokemon Master
 
Darth_Firebolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Arkansas
Bikes: 2017 Trek 920, 2011 Specialized Tricross Sport, 2008 Specialized Hardrock Sport, 1992 Mongoose IBOC Comp, 1989 Specialized Rockhopper Comp, 1987 Bridgestone 550, 1985 Schwinn High Sierra
Posts: 973
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
Didn't we already have this argument? Viewing all the shots and angles, I find the conclusion that Sagan was wholly innocent to be inescapable. It was a bad call.
yup
Darth_Firebolt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-17, 06:31 AM   #15
work4bike
Senior Member
 
work4bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 1,032
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 978 Post(s)
Sagan is going to kick some ass next year
work4bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-17, 01:53 PM   #16
aplcr0331
Senior Member
 
aplcr0331's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
Didn't we already have this argument? Viewing all the shots and angles, I find the conclusion that Sagan was wholly innocent to be inescapable. It was a bad call.


Yes, we did. And so did the UCI. They made the statement as a way to "fix" their error which was pretty clear when viewing from all angles. Reading Sagan's statement, sounds to me that the UCI wrote that for him. PC crap.


I'm not a Sagan fan, and what I've found is there are three reasons people still think he did something wrong.


1. The hate Sagan
2. They didn't watch all of the videos and that they have slow eyes, i.e they cannot see that Cav was already wrecking and out of control and Sagan's elbow was a result of Cav ****ing up next to him...not blocking.
3. Go back to 1.
aplcr0331 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-17, 12:13 AM   #17
GoldenBoy12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Bikes: Fixed Gear(46x14), Road Bike.
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
not in cycling's best interest to make a villain out of Sagan. he blocked with his elbow as a reaction to Cavendish's pass attempt. again, imo it was a reaction not a conscious action

they can say what they want, you don't throw your elbow out like that when racing in close quarters

still hate that he didn't get to finish the tour
This is also what I have to say whenever they say Sagan's elbow was intentional.
GoldenBoy12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:27 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    get answers from real people!
Click to start entering your question.
I HAVE A QUESTION