Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Professional Cycling For the Fans
Reload this Page >

Would the tour be better without radio communication?

Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

Would the tour be better without radio communication?

Old 07-14-18, 02:37 AM
  #1  
ooga-booga
lead on macduff!
Thread Starter
 
ooga-booga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: normal heights-san diego, ca
Posts: 4,120

Bikes: come and get 'em

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 419 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Would the tour be better without radio communication?

would the tour de france be better/more exciting/more open to watch without the radio communication between riders and the team car(s)? discuss...
ooga-booga is offline  
Old 07-14-18, 07:35 AM
  #2  
Iride01
Senior Member
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,305

Bikes: '91 Schwinn Paramount '78 Raleigh Competition GS

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 868 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 25 Posts
For a while maybe. Then we'd just get used to whatever crap that causes and think it needs livening up again. Perhaps they should ride fixies!
Iride01 is offline  
Old 07-14-18, 09:40 AM
  #3  
one4smoke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Nashville, TN.
Posts: 1,504

Bikes: 2016 Specialized Roubaix SL4 - 2015 Giant Roam 2 Disc

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 25 Posts
I suspect we would see a lot more chaos and less organization from the riders for sure. It would definitely spread out the standings.
one4smoke is offline  
Old 07-14-18, 09:44 AM
  #4  
colombo357
Senior Member
 
colombo357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Murica
Posts: 2,218
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
This topic has been discussed ad nauseam for about 2 decades, pretty since internet forums were first created.
colombo357 is offline  
Old 07-14-18, 09:45 AM
  #5  
Marcus_Ti 
Frozen Solid.
 
Marcus_Ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 4,673

Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1932 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 42 Posts
Hang-on, let's my call back to me team car and ask.
Marcus_Ti is online now  
Old 07-14-18, 09:54 AM
  #6  
brianmcg123
Senior Member
 
brianmcg123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: TN
Posts: 1,217
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 326 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
They should ban water bottles.
brianmcg123 is online now  
Old 07-14-18, 10:04 AM
  #7  
gpsblake
Walmart bike rider
 
gpsblake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 2,014
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
A few years ago they tried it as an experiment on one of the stages of the TDF.
gpsblake is offline  
Old 07-14-18, 10:39 AM
  #8  
Nightcap 
Senior Member
 
Nightcap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brewster, MA
Posts: 160

Bikes: Bianchi Boardwalk, Specialized Roubaix, Dahon Speed D7, Specialized Roll Elite

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Didn’t they try that in 2009? The teams didn’t go for it.

The Tour de France was created to sell newspapers. Nothing like Blood, crashes, men at the extreme edges of endurance, and death to attract eyeballs... As Oscar Lapize said of the Tour organizers on the Col du Tourmalet in 1910, “Vous êtes des assassins! Oui, des assassins!”

Radios make it a little safer.
Nightcap is offline  
Old 07-14-18, 03:37 PM
  #9  
gpsblake
Walmart bike rider
 
gpsblake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 2,014
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
The race radio Paul is always listening to. Is it in French and do all teams also have a separate frequency???
gpsblake is offline  
Old 07-16-18, 08:13 PM
  #10  
ooga-booga
lead on macduff!
Thread Starter
 
ooga-booga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: normal heights-san diego, ca
Posts: 4,120

Bikes: come and get 'em

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 419 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Originally Posted by colombo357 View Post
This topic has been discussed ad nauseam for about 2 decades, pretty since internet forums were first created.
sorry my frisbee landed on your lawn. it has been appropriately disciplined/liquidated.
ooga-booga is offline  
Old 07-17-18, 12:33 PM
  #11  
Maelochs
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 11,459

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5449 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times in 76 Posts
The question is, how much communication would need to be removed to have whatever effect people think it would have?

There are already many series below Pro-Continental or Continental which don't allow radios ... but they still have team cars come up along side the riders so the team managers can yell instructions. So ... should that be banned? Easy to do.

How about the guy on the moto with the chalkboard listing gaps .... would the race be more exciting if the breakaway didn't know how far ahead it was?

Then again, that can also be seen in action at some lower levels of racing.

What sort of "excitement" would you hope/expect would come from banning radios, specifically? What would you find more "exciting"? (Not looking to start a fight here, please---I really want to know.)

Seriously, ... if you can define what "increased excitement" might be we could brainstorm about it at least (to no point except to flagellate our imaginations) but we need to know what you think ""more exciting" would mean.

Personally I found Stages Nine and ten to be about as exciting as a bike race could be.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 07-17-18, 12:36 PM
  #12  
ksryder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,867

Bikes: yes

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 754 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 53 Posts
I think it would be more exciting if they didn't close the roads to traffic.
ksryder is offline  
Old 07-17-18, 01:19 PM
  #13  
Maelochs
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 11,459

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5449 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times in 76 Posts
We so need a "Like" button on these pages.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 07-18-18, 12:06 AM
  #14  
ooga-booga
lead on macduff!
Thread Starter
 
ooga-booga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: normal heights-san diego, ca
Posts: 4,120

Bikes: come and get 'em

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 419 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 25 Posts
would we all agree between the extreme weather protocol and the race radios, the flow of the race is more predictable?
ooga-booga is offline  
Old 07-18-18, 03:37 AM
  #15  
Maelochs
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 11,459

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5449 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times in 76 Posts
"predictable" in this case does not eliminate "exciting." Plenty of sports are predictable. They all follow rules. Some of the games/meets/matches are exciting, some aren't.

I have yet to see a baseball player use a football tackle on a base-runner. That would be exciting.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 07-18-18, 04:09 AM
  #16  
Maelochs
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 11,459

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5449 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times in 76 Posts
There will always be a breakaway …. There will be a chase if it is a sprint stage, and maybe depending on who is in the break, on a climbing stage.

A few things … in a stage race, energy output really matters. So …. The breakaway might be let go, as on Stage Ten, because it would be crazy to chase non-GC contenders and wear out the teams … no benefit to it.

Later in the race this same thing happens sometimes even on flat stages … the breakaway is let go, because the no one wants to burn out the team chasing when the GC is not at stake.

With no communication, teams would spend the first two-thirds of the race chasing every break …. They wouldn’t know who was in a break, who was bridging across, who attacked later. Also, the teams wouldn’t know if the break got a minute- or a ten-minute lead … so they couldn’t take a chance.

So every race would be much harder, and very few breaks would be allowed away. And all the teams would be burned out much sooner. The last week of Grands Tours, the riders would be crippled.

Likely there would be more crashes, because at no time would the peloton be able to relax. Every stage would be like the first third of Stage Nine---everyone fighting for every inch of pavement, and everyone colliding, because the only way to control the race would be to ride on the front.

And … after a while … riders would adapt to having no radios—after all, for most of the sport’s history, there were no radios—and then races would take a new shape … which would in time become equally predictable.

As I Noted Above ….. There are lots of races where radios are not allowed. If you wnt to see what a race without radios is like, watch one. See what you think.


But even those races have the guy with the tote-board listing the gap to the break, and team cars with coaches telling the riders what’s up. You’d have to get down to the regional level to get to races where there was no communication on the road at all …. But the bonus is, you can watch those races for free, and likely right in your area.

I don’t know exactly how racing would change. I don’t know how much communication is “right”. Gove the breakaway riders and the peloton the gap to the break, and nothing else? No communication between team car and riders, so no tactics?

Right now riders in the break can drop back to support a team mate’s attack from the peloton—that would be gone. Also, if a couple riders tried to bridge up to the break, a team wouldn’t know if they made it or not. Teams wouldn’t know what a rider had a crash or a mechanical. I don’t know if that would hurt or improve the racing.

I do thinkm, that with or without radios, riders would figure out how to do whatever worked, and the races would be equally predictable … after all, they Want races to be predictable. They want to know the best tactics for any situation and to use those tactics. So no matter what, teams will figure out a certain approach for all thelikely situations and keep using it … just as they do today.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 07-18-18, 05:26 AM
  #17  
ksryder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,867

Bikes: yes

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 754 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 53 Posts
They should allow PEDs but make it completely random and not tell which riders are on drugs, so everyone's trying to guess.
ksryder is offline  
Old 07-18-18, 05:54 AM
  #18  
ooga-booga
lead on macduff!
Thread Starter
 
ooga-booga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: normal heights-san diego, ca
Posts: 4,120

Bikes: come and get 'em

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 419 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
"predictable" in this case does not eliminate "exciting." Plenty of sports are predictable. They all follow rules. Some of the games/meets/matches are exciting, some aren't.

I have yet to see a baseball player use a football tackle on a base-runner. That would be exciting.
well they did outlaw the "play at the plate" a few years ago to supposedly protect catchers and presumably baserunners. and yes, it was the most exciting play in baseball. gone now.
ooga-booga is offline  
Old 07-18-18, 05:58 AM
  #19  
ooga-booga
lead on macduff!
Thread Starter
 
ooga-booga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: normal heights-san diego, ca
Posts: 4,120

Bikes: come and get 'em

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 419 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
There will always be a breakaway …. There will be a chase if it is a sprint stage, and maybe depending on who is in the break, on a climbing stage.

A few things … in a stage race, energy output really matters. So …. The breakaway might be let go, as on Stage Ten, because it would be crazy to chase non-GC contenders and wear out the teams … no benefit to it.

Later in the race this same thing happens sometimes even on flat stages … the breakaway is let go, because the no one wants to burn out the team chasing when the GC is not at stake.

With no communication, teams would spend the first two-thirds of the race chasing every break …. They wouldn’t know who was in a break, who was bridging across, who attacked later. Also, the teams wouldn’t know if the break got a minute- or a ten-minute lead … so they couldn’t take a chance.

So every race would be much harder, and very few breaks would be allowed away. And all the teams would be burned out much sooner. The last week of Grands Tours, the riders would be crippled.

Likely there would be more crashes, because at no time would the peloton be able to relax. Every stage would be like the first third of Stage Nine---everyone fighting for every inch of pavement, and everyone colliding, because the only way to control the race would be to ride on the front.

And … after a while … riders would adapt to having no radios—after all, for most of the sport’s history, there were no radios—and then races would take a new shape … which would in time become equally predictable.

As I Noted Above ….. There are lots of races where radios are not allowed. If you wnt to see what a race without radios is like, watch one. See what you think.


But even those races have the guy with the tote-board listing the gap to the break, and team cars with coaches telling the riders what’s up. You’d have to get down to the regional level to get to races where there was no communication on the road at all …. But the bonus is, you can watch those races for free, and likely right in your area.

I don’t know exactly how racing would change. I don’t know how much communication is “right”. Gove the breakaway riders and the peloton the gap to the break, and nothing else? No communication between team car and riders, so no tactics?

Right now riders in the break can drop back to support a team mate’s attack from the peloton—that would be gone. Also, if a couple riders tried to bridge up to the break, a team wouldn’t know if they made it or not. Teams wouldn’t know what a rider had a crash or a mechanical. I don’t know if that would hurt or improve the racing.

I do thinkm, that with or without radios, riders would figure out how to do whatever worked, and the races would be equally predictable … after all, they Want races to be predictable. They want to know the best tactics for any situation and to use those tactics. So no matter what, teams will figure out a certain approach for all thelikely situations and keep using it … just as they do today.
good post. i tend to think that aggressive riders will be aggressive regardless. my beef is with the ds' holding onto the leash as long as possible.
ooga-booga is offline  
Old 07-19-18, 02:14 PM
  #20  
MKahrl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 1,092

Bikes: Rivendell A.Homer Hilsen, Paramount P13, (4) Falcon bicycles, Mondia Special, Rodriguez Tandem

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
How about the guy on the moto with the chalkboard listing gaps ....
If you look carefully you'll notice it's a woman with the chalkboard.
MKahrl is offline  
Old 07-19-18, 02:28 PM
  #21  
Marcus_Ti 
Frozen Solid.
 
Marcus_Ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 4,673

Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1932 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 42 Posts
Originally Posted by MKahrl View Post
If you look carefully you'll notice it's a woman with the chalkboard.

Been the same woman for years. She basically politely asked ASO for the job and got it.
Marcus_Ti is online now  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Inpd
Bicycle Mechanics
4
09-15-15 09:35 AM
byrnemm
Charity Events
0
06-29-11 09:52 AM
alicestrong
Southern California Regional Rides and Events
0
06-16-11 10:31 AM
freeskihp
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
343
01-17-08 09:08 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.