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Sagan one of the greatest ever?

Old 07-21-18, 11:04 AM
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one4smoke
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Sagan one of the greatest ever?

Where does Peter Sagan rank in greatest cyclist of all time?
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Old 07-21-18, 11:06 AM
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I think he has got to be right up there !
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Old 07-21-18, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by one4smoke View Post
Where does Peter Sagan rank in greatest cyclist of all time?
In the top thousand.
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Old 07-21-18, 02:40 PM
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It's impossible to compare riders from different eras, but I think he's definitely the most universally liked road racer in history. Armstrong wasn't universally liked even back in '99, despite his widespread fame.

Merckx is the winningest road racer in history.

John Tomac will always be the greatest all-around cyclist. He got into MTB at its infancy. Never again will we see a rider compete in both a Grand Tour as well as a UCI Downhill event.
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Old 07-21-18, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
In the top thousand.
Can you please list the other 999?
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Old 07-21-18, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by one4smoke View Post
Can you please list the other 999?
No, I'm listless.
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Old 07-21-18, 04:17 PM
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Tdf commentator called him a freak... But, in a good way because he is both a sprinter and a GC competitor
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Old 07-21-18, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
Tdf commentator called him a freak... But, in a good way because he is both a sprinter and a GC competitor
Hardly, even after the peloton today allowing the break to go out to 22 minutes he's still over an hour behind the yellow jersey in 45th place.
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Old 07-21-18, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
Tdf commentator called him a freak... But, in a good way because he is both a sprinter and a GC competitor
Don't forget climber too...
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Old 07-21-18, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
Hardly, even after the peloton today allowing the break to go out to 22 minutes he's still over an hour behind the yellow jersey in 45th place.
If being a GC contender had been his goal from the start, he'd be much higher than 45th. But obviously it wasn't.
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Old 07-21-18, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by one4smoke View Post
If being a GC contender had been his goal from the start, he'd be much higher than 45th. But obviously it wasn't.
If being a GC contender had been his goal from the start he wouldn't be winning sprint stages. There's a reason he doesn't go for GC in GTs.
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Old 07-21-18, 05:27 PM
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great as measured by what? Grand tours?

winning the TDF is something I don't think he will do (hope I'm wrong because I'm a fan)

strange thing about the so called "sprinters" who aspire to win certain stages of the Tour but not the whole thing (Kittel, Cavendish, Greipal, etc. are all out of the tour)

Don't know much about professional cycling because I watch the TDF but nothing else. Sagan is a 3 time world champion, but I don't know how that is determined

​​​​​​​is he great? in my mind yes!
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Old 07-21-18, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
great as measured by what? Grand tours?

winning the TDF is something I don't think he will do (hope I'm wrong because I'm a fan)

strange thing about the so called "sprinters" who aspire to win certain stages of the Tour but not the whole thing (Kittel, Cavendish, Greipal, etc. are all out of the tour)

Don't know much about professional cycling because I watch the TDF but nothing else. Sagan is a 3 time world champion, but I don't know how that is determined

is he great? in my mind yes!
It's determined by him winning a one-day classic type race.
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Old 07-21-18, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
If being a GC contender had been his goal from the start he wouldn't be winning sprint stages. There's a reason he doesn't go for GC in GTs.
Because he puts all his emphasis on the green jersey?

Seriously, I think he should try a GC run at it. He seems to be really good at everything, while great at sprinting.
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Old 07-21-18, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
great as measured by what? Grand tours?

winning the TDF is something I don't think he will do (hope I'm wrong because I'm a fan)

strange thing about the so called "sprinters" who aspire to win certain stages of the Tour but not the whole thing (Kittel, Cavendish, Greipal, etc. are all out of the tour)

Don't know much about professional cycling because I watch the TDF but nothing else. Sagan is a 3 time world champion, but I don't know how that is determined

​​​​​​​is he great? in my mind yes!
Pound for pound, I believe he's the best in the sport.
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Old 07-21-18, 07:46 PM
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I don't know what his chances of winning overall are but despite the fact Greg Lemond apparently says Sagan is too heavy to win the tour (wrong power to weight ratio-- he's have to lose some muscle), he's taller and lighter than LA and Eddy Merckx wouldn't stand a chance either.
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Old 07-21-18, 07:54 PM
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About TdF riders being different these days-- maybe slower... according to the discussion, Froome, for example, rode the Alpe d'Huez with a 38x32 so the thought was presumably he must have used it whereas they didn't have a gear as big as a 32 in the past... and, they had far fewer gears (5-speed cogs) spaced a tooth apart.
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Old 07-21-18, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
... whereas they didn't have a gear as big as a 32 in the past... and, they had far fewer gears (5-speed cogs) spaced a tooth apart.
I don't know what was available for the first 5-speed freewheels but 14-28 5-speed were a stock item in 1967. I doubt "corncobs" (1 tooth jumps) were ever used as mountain freewheels. In 1967 the Peugeot UO-8 came with a 14-26. I spent $25 maybe and upped mine to a 14-28.

Ben
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Old 07-22-18, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I don't know what was available for the first 5-speed freewheels but 14-28 5-speed were a stock item in 1967. I doubt "corncobs" (1 tooth jumps) were ever used as mountain freewheels. In 1967 the Peugeot UO-8 came with a 14-26. I spent $25 maybe and upped mine to a 14-28.

Ben
Me too... I had an 11-28 5-cog freewheel. But, check this out...

Oddly enough, the mountains were just as steep then as they are today, so these poor sods had to slog up l’Alpe d’Huez on perhaps a 42×21 while today’s pros get to choose between a compact or regular crank and cassettes that smoothly transition between an 11 tooth sprocket and a 26 on their 11-speed clusters.
Velominati ? Lost Art: Mashing a Giant Gear
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Old 07-22-18, 08:57 AM
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It never occurred to them to use a lower gear? Wow!
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Old 07-22-18, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Colnago Mixte View Post
It never occurred to them to use a lower gear? Wow!
Mashing versus spinning?
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Old 07-22-18, 09:02 AM
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A bit like the scientific management of Frederick Taylor--e.g., a stronger man can lift a bigger shovel of coal but for the rest of us, more coal can be lifted with more reps using a smaller shovel...
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Old 07-22-18, 09:05 AM
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Teams are important in winning the Tour now... Eddy Merckx was known for breaking out and disappearing ahead, never to be seen by the other riders again.
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Old 07-22-18, 09:34 AM
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You really see those riders suffering in the old race films on the gearing they used.

It's not as if lower gears for bikes didn't exist back then, but the pro riders simply never used 'em. Was it all just pride that made them think it was acceptable to climb the Galibier or the Tourmalet on a 42x21?

Those guys must have torn their knees to shreds!
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Old 07-22-18, 09:53 AM
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I would probably want about a 26x26 on a grade like that, but then again, I'm not a professional.
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