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TdF 2019 - Stage 19

Old 07-26-19, 10:35 AM
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Though this is probably futile, I suggest considering the race as it happened. The hypotheticals are unprovable.

Bernal is a hell of a climber.
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Old 07-26-19, 11:11 AM
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1. Cancel the stage - of course, correct decision... not a neutralized section or anything like that.
2. Award MP and MV points because the race was on when they earned those points.
3. Everyone should get the same GC time as they had yesterday... it's not valid to give time on half a stage when racers are strategizing for the full stage... organizers got this wrong.
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Old 07-26-19, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott
1. Cancel the stage - of course, correct decision... not a neutralized section or anything like that.
2. Award MP and MV points because the race was on when they earned those points.
3. Everyone should get the same GC time as they had yesterday... it's not valid to give time on half a stage when racers are strategizing for the full stage... organizers got this wrong.
I agree
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Old 07-26-19, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Rajflyboy
KM 89 will be the most important KM in this tour.
Prophetic!


What lotto numbers should I play?
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Old 07-26-19, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by diabloscott
1. Cancel the stage - of course, correct decision... Not a neutralized section or anything like that.
2. Award mp and mv points because the race was on when they earned those points.
3. Everyone should get the same gc time as they had yesterday... It's not valid to give time on half a stage when racers are strategizing for the full stage... Organizers got this wrong.
+1
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Old 07-26-19, 12:00 PM
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GC After Stage 19

1 BERNAL GOMEZ, Egan Arley (INS) 78:00:42
2 ALAPHILIPPE, Julian (DQT) + 48
3 THOMAS, Geraint (INS) + 1:16
4 KRUIJSWIJK, Steven (TJV) + 1:28
5 BUCHMANN, Emanuel (BOH) + 1:55
6 LANDA MEANA, Mikel (MOV) + 4:35
7 URAN, Rigoberto (EF1) + 5:14
8 QUINTANA, Nairo (MOV) + 5:17
9 VALVERDE, Alejandro (MOV) + 6:25
10 PORTE, Richie (TFS) + 6:28

With time bonus of 8 seconds for being first over the top Bernal has a lead of 48 seconds which should ensure he wins this year's TdF.

Hope Alaphilippe at least holds onto 2nd tomorrow.
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Old 07-26-19, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott
1. Cancel the stage - of course, correct decision... not a neutralized section or anything like that.
2. Award MP and MV points because the race was on when they earned those points.
3. Everyone should get the same GC time as they had yesterday... it's not valid to give time on half a stage when racers are strategizing for the full stage... organizers got this wrong.
I don't agree. But then, I come from a motorsports background. There, if weather impedes, a winner is declared and the the finishing order is determined either by the most recent lap or most recent timing marker. The race isn't just cancelled and everyone goes home without a result.

You can't really what-if the rest of the stage, and you also can't negate the work the riders put in. Bernal was punishing the field and he earned it.
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Old 07-26-19, 12:40 PM
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I think from now on the team cars should carry fatbikes to get the riders through in case this sort of thing happens again.
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Old 07-26-19, 12:52 PM
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I come from a golfing world where the answer is obvious. You should cancel today's stage and start Stage 19 again tomorrow at 6:30 a.m. local time and then start Stage 20 at 1:00 pm local time. Problem solved :-)

dave
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Old 07-26-19, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreww10
If anything, the cancellation gave Julian a chance at staying on the podium. Whether he closed the gap going down or not, he was going to get stomped on the final ascent and lose even more time. Certainly more than the 2 minutes he lost as it was.
Not to mention this likely keeps him a bit more fresh for tomorrows stage. Those climbs were hurting him more than anyone else and now he has one less to do.
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Old 07-26-19, 02:05 PM
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This stage should be voided and gc standing left where it was after Stage 18. This is ridiculous.
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Old 07-26-19, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by LeeG
This stage should be voided and gc standing left where it was after Stage 18. This is ridiculous.
It's not ridiculous, it's bike racing. Unforseen things happen and races or stages get truncated You'll notice that none of the riders or team directors are suggesting this or redoing the stage or anything like it. They may be unhappy with what happened, but they know that the stage will stand as is.
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Old 07-26-19, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC
I come from a golfing world where the answer is obvious. You should cancel today's stage and start Stage 19 again tomorrow at 6:30 a.m. local time and then start Stage 20 at 1:00 pm local time. Problem solved :-)

dave
You could actually do this, logistically. Tomorrow's stage has been cut by 60% at this point:

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...st-59km-432930


So, realistically the GC contest is a fait accompli for Sky Ineos (again)
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Old 07-26-19, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
You could actually do this, logistically. Tomorrow's stage has been cut by 60% at this point:

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...st-59km-432930


So, realistically the GC contest is a fait accompli for Sky Ineos (again)
Or it could liven things up. Fast and furious ascent with lots of attacks.
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Old 07-26-19, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by LeeG
This stage should be voided and gc standing left where it was after Stage 18. This is ridiculous.
If you did that, people would be going bonkers that the French were fixing the race for Alaphilippe.

But how in the world did Alaphilippe allow Bernal to get so far ahead of him in the first place during today's stage?

I guess the question is, has a grand tour had to do this before (shorten a stage on the fly) or have they ever nullified a stage after a stage was shortened?
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Old 07-26-19, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Caretaker
Or it could liven things up. Fast and furious ascent with lots of attacks.
Enough to alter the podium of the GC...Doubt it. It would take a massive crack in form, or a crash, or a doping positive for that to happen. Granted any of those 3 could happen.
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Old 07-26-19, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
Enough to alter the podium of the GC...Doubt it. It would take a massive crack in form, or a crash, or a doping positive for that to happen. Granted any of those 3 could happen.
Thomas is 28 seconds off an Ineos 1st & 2nd. It is a possibility on what will be a long hard climb. Hope it doesn't happen but it will be something they will be trying for.
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Old 07-26-19, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gpsblake
If you did that, people would be going bonkers that the French were fixing the race for Alaphilippe.

But how in the world did Alaphilippe allow Bernal to get so far ahead of him in the first place during today's stage?

I guess the question is, has a grand tour had to do this before (shorten a stage on the fly) or have they ever nullified a stage after a stage was shortened?
I donít get the rational for changing the course mid race. Canceling a race due to conditions, yes, changing the course midway, no.
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Old 07-26-19, 08:22 PM
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Why not neutralize the stage? I.e. stop the riders behind the obstruction. Take times. Then wait for the road to clear or shuttle past the obstruction and restart with riders staring based on their time before the obstruction. Itís been done numerous times.

And the Giro organizers have just one word to say, ďStelvioĒ?
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Old 07-26-19, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by LeeG
I donít get the rational for changing the course mid race. Canceling a race due to conditions, yes, changing the course midway, no.
Canceling would mean taking action before the race start, and, um, the dangerous conditions developed *during* the race, ya know?
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Old 07-26-19, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by gpsblake
If you did that, people would be going bonkers that the French were fixing the race for Alaphilippe.

But how in the world did Alaphilippe allow Bernal to get so far ahead of him in the first place during today's stage?

?
uhm, because Bernal is a faster climber?

At best Alaphillipe wold
have caught back on on the descent only to be dropped again on the final climb. Too bad we didnít get to see it play out
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Old 07-26-19, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
uhm, because Bernal is a faster climber?
But that early in the stage???? If you are in the yellow, shouldn't Alaphilipe been riding his wheel? And if Alaphilipe couldn't match Bernal dropping 2 minutes early in the race, then perhaps this may have helped Alaphilipe. Or you could raise the conspiracy theory that Team Ineos knew something that Team Quick Step did not know.

But it's the right call by the organizers as tough as it is.

Tomorrow will be freaking awesome. Basically a time trial to the top of the mountain.
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Old 07-26-19, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by gpsblake

Tomorrow will be freaking awesome. Basically a time trial to the top of the mountain.
I dunno how it's going to play out b/c it's not a TT and teamwork up that mountain is going to count for something. And Ineos has the stronger team. Somehow Alaphillipe has to escape and put 48 seconds into Bernal. I just don't see how he does that. Ineos will set a blistering pace, with Thomas riding for Bernal. Bernal may not even need to get out front in order to defend.
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Old 07-26-19, 08:51 PM
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I'm on the side that the organizers did the best they could with the situation. Canceling the entire stage would be patently unfair to those who had expended the energy on this stage to put themselves in the position there were at. Continuing the race under the conditions was obviously infeasible. Stopping the race and re-releasing riders through the obstruction at a later time was logistically impossible. The top of the last climb is the logical place where times are available and where most of the leading riders had all passed this checkpoint, so no contenders gained an advantage by having inside knowledge that the race was ending prematurely.

As to the idea that this has dramatically changed the overall outcome, anything is possible, but I'm skeptical it made much change at all. JA might have clawed back perhaps 20 secs in the descent (if he didn't crash - he was riding at a pace where a crash is probably a one in three probability), but probably would have lost that and much more on the next climb. He's been on the absolute limit defending the jersey for quite some time now hanging on by his fingernails and given that his forte has never been high-altitude climbing, the chances of him milking his slim lead through all three of the final alps stages was always pretty small. I hope he can keep 2nd, but I bet GT gets a couple minutes on him in tomorrow's stage. I could see him dropping to 6th, although the shortened Stage 20 may help him hang on.

Net, net, they did the best they could and I doubt the overall result, at least for the podium, will likely be affected.

- Mark

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Old 07-27-19, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
Canceling would mean taking action before the race start, and, um, the dangerous conditions developed *during* the race, ya know?

Cancel the timing. A void stage.
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