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Originally Posted by BengalCat
(Post 21047929)
Armstrong at 165 pounds was among the heaviest of the great climbers. Weight is very important, of course. But more accurately it is mostly about the power to weight ratio and sustainable power which is why the preceding is the most common trait among the great TdF winners or those that win and or come close to winning. Those skinny little guys that excel as climbers lack the other traits. So it is the former that wins the Tour and not the latter, or not very often.
For reference, Armstrong won Alpe d’Huez twice. Once as a time trial and once as the finishing climb at the end of a long stage. On the time trial, he fluctuated between 475 and 500 watts. On the climb as the end of the stage, he was only 24 seconds slower up the climb than he was on the TT. |
Originally Posted by Doge
(Post 21057027)
So I am NOT a Lance hater and do enjoy his opinions and podcasts. But I typically discount his stats. In his own book he described being dropped until he doped. So, like others at his time - inc Eddy, performances were PED aided and not really valid for comparison.
You should acknowledge that regarding Armstrong starting to dope after he got dropped, that the reason he got dropped was people that were dropping him on stages or overtaking him on TT were doping. To win the TdF you have to be an all-around high-level pro and be able to be highly competitive in the mountain stages. It all comes down to that it takes on average about 6.3 watts per kilo in the power to weight ratio over the course of the TdF plus a high lactate threshold to win. (The last trait is IMO the main physical feature that made Armstrong more successful than his EPO doped rivals.) From stats as of 2004: https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8a0ee0f7c7.png |
Originally Posted by BengalCat
(Post 21057177)
... I take it you do not consider their stats valid either?
... I prefer to look at what the best can do within the confines of the sport rules. So what a recumbent can do, or bike or position that is not allowed are not valid for comparison. |
Originally Posted by BengalCat
(Post 21057177)
it takes on average about 6.3 watts per kilo in the power to weight ratio over the course of the TdF ...
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Originally Posted by Doge
(Post 21057588)
That is about 1 hour power. Much of the race (the stuff we don't watch) they tool along a cycling group ride speed. I think closer to 2-3 w/kg.
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Originally Posted by Doge
(Post 21057588)
That is about 1 hour power. Much of the race (the stuff we don't watch) they tool along a cycling group ride speed. I think closer to 2-3 w/kg.
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Wiggo made a statement he needed to hold 485 for an hour for his worlds ITT. I am not aware of the actual data being public.
He was legally PED aided. I think he was quite light then, but not going to look it up now. |
Originally Posted by Doge
(Post 21058875)
Wiggo made a statement he needed to hold 485 for an hour for his worlds ITT. I am not aware of the actual data being public.
He was legally PED aided. I think he was quite light then, but not going to look it up now. British cyclist Bradley Wiggins, who, in 2015, pedaled 54.526 kilometers (33.881 miles) to set the current men's record, is estimated to have averaged 440 watts. https://www.wired.com/story/cycling-...le/?verso=true |
I don't believe he has ever posted power. I expect the track number is calculated.
As to the OP - I think Egan is every bit as good as what we have seen at climbing. I still like the climbers that can also win the ITT - in theory, without PEDs. Those guys were thicker. |
Originally Posted by Lemond1985
(Post 21046231)
When the race is designed to let a climber win, the winner and the main contenders all look like 98 lb weaklings, and during years like that, I care a lot less about which of the lookalike emaciated stick men ends up wearing the yellow jersey in Paris. When the eventual winner can at least pass on the street as a normal person, I think that's a good thing.
Great champions like Merckx, Hinualt, Lemond, Indurain, and Armstrong did not look like freaks while off the bike, and I think that counts for something with fans, to have a hero they can relate to, not some alien creature like Marco Pantani. And that to me is one reason not to tilt the race so that only a climber can win. https://images.app.goo.gl/QaG48VjJnQRT9yYBA |
He does now ... look at those big meaty hands! :D
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9b2988dc93.jpg |
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