StalkerZERO

Ya ok so I'm a TDF noob.

Can ya please explain to me the reason for splitting the TDF into stages and what is necessary for someone to win the overall race? :|

Bikeophile

If it were not split into stages then they would have to ride 2500miles all at once...

To win the General Classification (GC) you have to have the fastest time from the start of Stage 1 through to the finish in Paris. This is cumulative over the entire race.

The person with the lowest cumulative time at the end of each stage is given the YELLOW Jersey, signifying the current race leader.

That is a very basic summary of the race...

pedex

there's also the bunch finish rule which gives all riders in a pack the same time which is pretty important, it plays heavily into the tactics and allows GC contenders to coast and draft for 95% of the race

there's also points awarded with time bonuses at various places along each stage for the first riders across and at the finish

my58vw

The points that pedex refers to are sprint points for the green jersey, given to the leader of the points competition. The green jersey for sprinters is like the yellow jersey for the climbers and all arounders. That is one of the reasons that the sprints are so crazy other than winning the stage.

Bikeophile

Yellow is for the General Classification
Polka Dot is for the Climbers
Green is for the Point Leaders (Sprinters)
White is for the best young rider

StalkerZERO

:|..............still a bit confusing.
Ok then umm tell me how is Lance doing after 3 stages and can any strategy be deduced by whats gone on so far? And how about stage 4 the team time trials? What is the importance of that one. Does winning stages play into the overall tour win? And in what way does it?

Lots of questions and I wanna learn. :|

jim-bob

What's the ":|" stuff all about?

Devil

Winning stages should theoretically play into the overall win, but it doesn't always. See Paolo Savoldelli's 2002 Giro win. He didn't win a single stage.

No real strategy can be deduced from the stages so far. The TTT is not terrible important because of the rule that limits the time gaps. The big contenders' teams (Discovery, CSC, T-Mobile) will all be pretty close to each other anyways.

jit2

Team time trial rules are as folows:
Time is based on the fifth rider across the line.

Riders in the team that finishes second can lose no more than 20 seconds, 3rd - 30 seconds, 4th - 40 seconds and so on in ten second increments down to the 15th team, who can lose no more than 2.30, and then in five second increments down to the 21st team whose riders can lose no more than 3 minutes. If the team finishes closer to the winners than the maximum, the riders get the actual team time.

Maximum that any team can gain on the day is 20 seconds.

StalkerZERO

Its just a smiley similar to " :\ " sorta like a dazed indifferent kinda look. suprised you haven't seen it before.

pedex

Well so far Armstrong is doing fine, staying out of trouble and waiting for the hills.The usual formula for winning the GC or general classification(overall win) is to get time on everyone else whenever you can.For guys like Lance that means take advantage of your strengths,his is time trialing and climbing, so when he's not doing that, you will see him surrounded by his teamates which shield him from the wind so he can save his energy for when it counts, this is the strategy.You get points and a time bonus for stage wins, he's not interested in points but he will take any time he can get, and try to "put time" on his rivals whenever possible.Drafting just like in car racing is important in bike racing, thats the teams job, pull him along and keep him out of the wind until he can be in position to go for whatever wins he can get or gain time on his rivals.You can win the GC and never win a stage.

He's not a sprinter, he's fast, but in a sprint he'd get his butt handed to him against a sprinter, and because of the bunch finish rule, there's nothing to gain by contesting a flat stage he cant win to begin with.So on flat stages guys like him just hang in the near the front out of the wind and try not to get "flicked"(term for when someone takes you out on purpose) or get involved in any wrecks.

Sprinters cant climb worth a damn compared to guys with higher power to weight ratios, so they dont do well in the hills and typically have ZERO chance at a GC win.Same with the climbers, they arent fast enough on the flats and dont sprint well, they get used more as helpers(domestiques) and weapons to cover breakaways in the hills.

Domestiques are the helpers, they shield the GC rider from the wind,protect him, and ferry food and water from the team car back to the team during the race..........which means dropping off the back to the team car, getting supplies and riding back to where the team is in the peloton or big group of riders, they get abused to say the least, but thats their job, work for the team leader.

StalkerZERO

So you don't have to win any stages and still win overall? But wasn't it said that to win the tdf you have to have the quickest time overall? And wouldn't winning the most stages mean that you've been the fastest overall?

michaelnel

This is great stuff. I watch the TDF when I remember to, but until now understood about 1% of what I was seeing.

This discussion has me up to maybe 5%. ;-)

pedex

Nope, you dont have to win any stages to win the GC, it doesnt happen often, but it has happened, all you need to do is have a better overall time than anyone else.Right now, there's only a handful of guys,maybe 5 or 6 that have a realistic shot at a GC win, so all you have to do is beat those guys.Its normal for a guy like Lance to gain time in a time trial or two, and win a couple hilltop finishes and that usually enough.

There's also 2 other mini races within the TDF, hill climbing points, and sprinting points, these are awarded at various parts of each stage and at the finish, they also usually have a small time bonus which gets subtracted from your total time.

Whats gonna happen here more than likely is Lance will be down a few minutes by the time they hit the mountains, once that happens, he will blow the sprinters who are leading to bits with his climbing ability.You might get a few seconds here and there on flat stages, but you can get as much as 40mins sometimes on someone in the mountains.

Devil

You think sprinters are going to be leading the GC when the road kicks up? Don't forget that it wasn't a prologue at the beginning of the Tour, it was a time trial. There are some serious time gaps in there. I think the GC will stay more or less the same barring a huge breakaway, which is unlikely because CSC seems to want to keep that jersey for as long as humanly possible.

ZappCatt

Nope, you have the have the lowest cumulative time(including bonuses) as mentioned before, their are all-arounders..those that can do all the different elements and usually hope for the overall win, sprinters who only really have a chance of winniing a flat stage, and climbers who excel and could win in the mountains.

So.....if you were to finish second every day, there is a great chance that you would win the race, since some sprinters would have won the flat stages, a climber had won mountain stages etc...In actuality you would not even have to be second each day to win the tour, just dont lose alot of time on any stage...

pedex

This year no, most years and in general, yep, thats the way it usually plays out.I was just trying to be as general as possible, each years stages are different and in in different degrees of difficulty year after year, the anniversary TDF had more hill stages than usual so it played out differently.Yes, the strategy can change a bit depending on who does what and when, who would have thought Ullrich would have blown it on stage one !!!Lots of racing left yet though, stuff happens.Armstrong like anyone else can get sick or have a bad day,thats all it takes is one screw up or some bad luck and the whole race changes, no doubt about that, but the basic formula hasnt changed much for the last few years.

cycleprincess

This is the first year I've really kept an eye on the Tour, so this is all very interesting to me. I'm a finish line kind of gal, so it is very possible that the fella who crosses the finish line first will not be the winner? No?

allgoo19

Yes, that's possible. You keep winning second place when the first place keeps changeing to different racers.

Basically, every riders in the race will get the time for each stages and at the end of the tour, each racer add up their time for all 21 stages. A racer with the least total time wins regardless of how many stages he won. Often confusing part of this is when a big group of racer(often called peloton) finishes one after another, that big group gets the same time regardless of how far the first of the group and the last of the group would be.
It's similar to playing golf. Count how many strokes each player swings, then add up the total strokes at the end, a player with fewest strokes wins, but not how many holes he wins.

When they compete in Team Time Trial (TTT), everybody in the team gets the same time.

allgoo19

Stage winner and the tour winner are different, so you are correct. Stage winning certainly helps to win over all tour winning as long as the first place can make a time difference against the second place. Like today and yesterday's finish, everybody in the group gets the same time, so the effect of winning stage towards winning the tour is very small.

I myself still learning about the race like Tour de France. You'll find it's a pretty exciting event. More you know it, more you will find it enjoyable to watch. Just keep watching and don't be embarrassed to ask questions. There's always a guy like me who has too much time in the hands.

StalkerZERO

Question: Is it good or bad that Lance didn't finish the 3rd stage in the top 20? Overall hes still ok right? And also, how important to him is the 4th stage the team time trial?

Oh, and don't tell me how he did yet in the 4th trial cause I want to find out by watching the rerun of today's 4th stage tonight when I get home from work.

Laggard

It was a pack finish. Doesn't matter if he finishes 10th or 100th. Same time is awarded.

va_cyclist

Not sure if someone else responded with this yet, but the official TDF site explains all the rules of the race.

https://www.letour.fr/2005/TDF/LIVE/u...r1_enjeux.html

StalkerZERO

That dictionary crap doesn't compare to one of you guys giving us a simple real world explanation in terms we can all understand.

kerank

Armstrong finished 87th in stage 3. This was a good result for him. How is that, you say? Because it was a "pack" finish (where a large group of riders finish together), Armstrong finished with the same time as the winner Boonen. So, he accomplished his goal... he didn't crash, and he lost no time to anyone that matters (in fact, he lost no time to anyone at all!).

Possibly in one of these future stages you will see a break-away group (small group racing out ahead of the main peleton) be successful... win the stage, and "put" lots of time on some of the main contenders. Maybe one of them even takes the yellow jersey (it made Thomas Voeckler famous last year). This is "allowed" to happen only if those riders in the group are no threat to the overall win (GC). For example, Team Discovery, CSC, Phonak, etc... would never allow Ullrich (of T-Mobile) to get in a break-away group. They would chase him down, and "pull" him back. I'll let someone else explain "pulling him back in" (it's not literal).