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Froome -- Dauphine

Old 08-10-20, 09:56 AM
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Froome -- Dauphine

It seems very possible that Froome will be left out of the Ineos lineup for the TDF. He hasn't fared so well in the tune up races and now only the Dauphine remains.
There's a lot of conjecture saying Ineos won't name Bernal + Froome + Thomas all for TDF . . . so even if Froome fares well at Dauphine, is he likely to displace Thomas for TDF?
I think the team would consider Thomas the more reliable choice for supporting Bernal since Froome has already signed a deal to leave after this season.
Palace intrigue aside, it's quite possible that Froome isn't the same racer he was before the crash.
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Old 08-10-20, 01:21 PM
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I kind of think Froome is done. It's far tougher for someone in the mid 30s to come back after a lengthy time off than it is someone in their 20s. He may get back to being a top-10 GC guy, but he's never going to be #1 again IMO.

Having said that, it would be pretty cool/impressive if I was wrong about him. I seem to be far more sympathetic to him now that he's the underdog (in my mind at least).
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Old 08-10-20, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
I kind of think Froome is done. It's far tougher for someone in the mid 30s to come back after a lengthy time off than it is someone in their 20s. He may get back to being a top-10 GC guy, but he's never going to be #1 again IMO.

Having said that, it would be pretty cool/impressive if I was wrong about him. I seem to be far more sympathetic to him now that he's the underdog (in my mind at least).
I agree with the general tone of all your observations, I'm just reluctant to count him as done.
Sure it's a long shot that he would contend for another TDF win but I will be pulling for him to do so.
Israel has made some acquisitions to put together a decent veteran team for next year's grand tours.
I mean no disrespect to the prestige of the Giro or the Vuelta, but it's the 5th TDF win that intrigues me so I do hope he can challenge at least.
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Old 08-11-20, 01:28 PM
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Well we'll find tomorrow and during the rest of the week. I'd be surprised if Froome is 100 percent. But you never know. I've never cheered for him or Sky/Ineos as they have always had the most money and best of everything. And I always like to pull for the underdogs. However like OBoile suggested, Froome's wreck last year, age, new younger and capable riders on the team looking to make their mark, changing teams next season and other stuff are sorta making him look more like an underdog.
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Old 08-11-20, 07:40 PM
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far from being a froome fan but i hafta respect his capabilities and palmares. trying to remember the year he took a flyer in a grand tour
(i think it was the tdf, perhaps the last year he won it) and shocked everyone with the attack from way out but he made it stick and destroyed everyone.
not expecting much from him results-wise while he's with ineos but once he's with the new team (october?)...watch out. it will be interesting to see how much
he uses a combo of teammates and allies/old teammates on the long climbs until he's ready to attack.

every year i think this is the year valverde is done. he consistently proves me and others wrong. i feel froomie is in the same boat. i think he's got a few more races
in him.

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Old 08-12-20, 08:30 PM
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He did not look good today. Couldn't hang with a fairly large peloton on the last climb.
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Old 08-12-20, 11:25 PM
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I didn't expect much from Froome this year other than using races to regain his conditioning and mental game.

The fact that's he's hanging on and not withdrawing is a good sign. Keep in mind that during his recovery season after gunshot injuries, LeMond withdrew from more than one race. Took him awhile to regain his physical form.

Mentally Froome one of the toughest in the sport, so if anyone has a shot at a comeback it's him. He may be even tougher mentally than LeMond. Hard to compare because LeMond was often a bit whiny, angry and petulant when he was struggling, but that's not much different from many champions. They aren't always models of civil behavior during their peak performance periods.

But not this year for Froome. He seems to be recovering well, all things considered. Next year is a possibility.
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Old 08-13-20, 02:27 PM
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Hard to say. he sure isn't in good form now. He's gotten dropped in the first two Dauphine stages--and yesterday's climbs were mostly Cat 4. He might be riding his way back into form ... he might be able to.

Valverde .... he doesn't look like he has it this season either. Yet with the lack of racing it is really hard to gauge anyone's form.

I am sot of thinking that there will be a whole new crop of cycling favorites. All the old guys are ... well, old. it's hard to beat youth.

I do feel a little sorry for Froome, though. He seemed willing to work for his team mates when he didn't have it, which means a lot to me---. and he has had terrible luck with crashes and accidents.
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Old 08-14-20, 03:50 AM
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Yesterday's Dauphine Stage 2 had a group of 10 riders finish within 10 seconds. All 10 were from 10 different teams.

Good to see the likes of Miguel Angel Lopez being able to keep up, Martinez from EF, Mikel Landa at Bahrain maybe can give it a good shot this year now that he is sole leader, same for Quintana at Arkea. Then you have the contenders from last year, Bernal, Buchmann, Pinot, and Roglic replacing Kruiswijk for TJV. Given that there is no TTT this year, and the ITT is short and uphill, really any of these climbers have a shot.

Kuss did amazing work, not sure if he really dropped 40 seconds at the end because he couldn't or he said 'I am not going for GC I might as well save something for my work in the coming days'. Because he again looks really strong and was the last domestique to be up there.
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Old 08-14-20, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
...
Kuss did amazing work, not sure if he really dropped 40 seconds at the end because he couldn't or he said 'I am not going for GC I might as well save something for my work in the coming days'. Because he again looks really strong and was the last domestique to be up there.
I think he was not dropped. He was doing his job and that did not involve anything but finishing once his leader was no longer on his wheel. I think it was similar for Wout. I don't think he could have finished with the leaders, but his job is to help another day, not get better GC time.
This is a sign of a well oiled team and as they will not have to be concerned about winning sprints in the TdF they can all focus on the team GC win.
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Old 08-14-20, 01:02 PM
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yeah, a lot of those climbers are really starting to show that they’re ready. enjoyed formolo’s big win/move today. buchmann, martin, higuita, martinez (among others) have been impressive. kuss has really been smashing it lately. if team jv weren’t so loaded, this may have been a perfect small tour for him to ride for the gc. dunno when his contract is up but i can think of several teams that would love to snap him up and turn him loose.
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Old 08-14-20, 01:35 PM
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I hope Kuss will stay on at J-V. He has a gift. He is a pure climber. He can go to a lesser team and be the big fish in a small pond or stay on strong teams where his abilities (and limitations) are fully understood. He has an ego that is well checked. He can pass up on the dreams of glory and stay on as a really good, gifted and valued teammate and be a part of many big time 3-week tours and other big wins, making decent money and making friendships for life. Those big teams will let him show every once in a while, giving him first class support for say 6-8 day stage races.

Not the American goal of the biggest, best, most publicized. But a worthy goal in the eyes of many.

Ben
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Old 08-14-20, 09:29 PM
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I see Kuss, like Hincapie good in the roll we see him in. Nothing wrong with making a living on helping others win. If his guy wins, he won.
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Old 08-15-20, 07:49 AM
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Bernal has retired from the Dauphine.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/53792393
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Old 08-16-20, 12:39 AM
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With injuries to several key younger cyclists, the chances are looking better for Froome and Thomas if they can avoid injury and continue progressing. At this stage in their careers only the Tour de France matters so I wouldn't pay much attention to any leadup races. Since Froome rarely publishes much data it's hard to tell whether he's struggling or playing a bit of possum, just sneaking himself back into peak condition for the one tour that counts for him.
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Old 08-16-20, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
With injuries to several key younger cyclists, the chances are looking better for Froome and Thomas if they can avoid injury and continue progressing. At this stage in their careers only the Tour de France matters so I wouldn't pay much attention to any leadup races. Since Froome rarely publishes much data it's hard to tell whether he's struggling or playing a bit of possum, just sneaking himself back into peak condition for the one tour that counts for him.
Sorry but that is absolute nonsense.

There is zero, zero reason to pretend to get dropped as early as they do. TJV are doing their thing and it doesn't matter if they get played by Ineos right now, only to be "surprised". Go back to the years where they dominated and see if they were dropped in the build up races or not. And form, or "peaking" - you don't magically gain minutes in a couple of weeks.

I'll eat my proverbial hat if they Froome/Thomas amount to anything in the Tour, especially Froome. But right now there is nothing whatsoever to indicate they will keep up in two week's time.
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Old 08-16-20, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
Sorry but that is absolute nonsense.

There is zero, zero reason to pretend to get dropped as early as they do. TJV are doing their thing and it doesn't matter if they get played by Ineos right now, only to be "surprised". Go back to the years where they dominated and see if they were dropped in the build up races or not. And form, or "peaking" - you don't magically gain minutes in a couple of weeks.

I'll eat my proverbial hat if they Froome/Thomas amount to anything in the Tour, especially Froome. But right now there is nothing whatsoever to indicate they will keep up in two week's time.
With how many people are crashing, Froome and Thomas may be the only ones left by the end of the Tour.

In all seriousness, I think you're right. They don't look ready.
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Old 08-16-20, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
With injuries to several key younger cyclists, the chances are looking better for Froome and Thomas
"If everyone else crashes, we might make the podium." Pretty sure that is not the best strategy.
Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Since Froome rarely publishes much data it's hard to tell whether he's struggling or playing a bit of possum, just sneaking himself back into peak condition for the one tour that counts for him.
Like a few others, I don't buy it. Teams like Jumbo Visma aren't deciding on their strategies depending on how Froome or Thomas perform. They have their players and will play whoever is healthy. They know as much about bike racing as the Ineos brain trust. Ineos can't lull them into a sense fo false security or something ... inf act, JV's ability to adapt to losing Kruijswijk and Roglic dropped out. JV knows that they can lose any rider at any time ... that is a bigger worry than what other teams do, because JV knows that if its team does its part, that's all it can do.

It may be that Froome and Thomas are not ready yet, after the layoff, and Froome's injuries, but in another month---the final week of the Tour---they might be. Thing is, after 14 stages, Ineos might be so far back all they can do is seek stage wins.

Sivakov rode like a hero, particularly after crashing. No other Ineos rider could even hang with the Pinot group. Sandbagging? Looks to me more like the team didn't do well with indoor training.

Could they be ready in two weeks, to do much better than they did this week? it isn't impossible, but does the team want to do two weeks of really hard training and then do a Grand Tour?

Thomas and Froome are what, 32? 33? And Froome has had terrible luck with crashed and illness. Shoot, Ineos didn't depend on Thomas or Froome for Last year's Tour, and this year they are older and less fit.

If Bernal doesn't lose a lot of training time with his back injury, he is Ineos' best GC hope, I'd say

But hey, England is known for its sport betting. Maybe Ineos' owners are trying to rig the odds to make it big with their bookies.

Just as plausible as sandbagging IMO.

One the final hand---absolutely super bike race. The Dauphine offered excitement in every stage, and Stage 5 was the best, with the GC battle stretching across throughout. That's the kind of stuff which keeps me watching through the sprint stages.
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Old 08-17-20, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
"If everyone else crashes, we might make the podium." Pretty sure that is not the best strategy. Like a few others, I don't buy it. Teams like Jumbo Visma aren't deciding on their strategies depending on how Froome or Thomas perform. They have their players and will play whoever is healthy. They know as much about bike racing as the Ineos brain trust. Ineos can't lull them into a sense fo false security or something ... inf act, JV's ability to adapt to losing Kruijswijk and Roglic dropped out. JV knows that they can lose any rider at any time ... that is a bigger worry than what other teams do, because JV knows that if its team does its part, that's all it can do.

It may be that Froome and Thomas are not ready yet, after the layoff, and Froome's injuries, but in another month---the final week of the Tour---they might be. Thing is, after 14 stages, Ineos might be so far back all they can do is seek stage wins.

Sivakov rode like a hero, particularly after crashing. No other Ineos rider could even hang with the Pinot group. Sandbagging? Looks to me more like the team didn't do well with indoor training.

Could they be ready in two weeks, to do much better than they did this week? it isn't impossible, but does the team want to do two weeks of really hard training and then do a Grand Tour?

Thomas and Froome are what, 32? 33? And Froome has had terrible luck with crashed and illness. Shoot, Ineos didn't depend on Thomas or Froome for Last year's Tour, and this year they are older and less fit.

If Bernal doesn't lose a lot of training time with his back injury, he is Ineos' best GC hope, I'd say

But hey, England is known for its sport betting. Maybe Ineos' owners are trying to rig the odds to make it big with their bookies.

Just as plausible as sandbagging IMO.

One the final hand---absolutely super bike race. The Dauphine offered excitement in every stage, and Stage 5 was the best, with the GC battle stretching across throughout. That's the kind of stuff which keeps me watching through the sprint stages.
defimitely. wipeouts. abandons. hailstorms. (super)domestiques getting a chance to shine. a big breakaway sticking. young punk(s) killing it. gc hanging in the balance until the last few seconds on the last day. 5 wild and crazy days.
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Old 08-17-20, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I hope Kuss will stay on at J-V. He has a gift. He is a pure climber. He can go to a lesser team and be the big fish in a small pond or stay on strong teams where his abilities (and limitations) are fully understood. He has an ego that is well checked. He can pass up on the dreams of glory and stay on as a really good, gifted and valued teammate and be a part of many big time 3-week tours and other big wins, making decent money and making friendships for life. Those big teams will let him show every once in a while, giving him first class support for say 6-8 day stage races.

Not the American goal of the biggest, best, most publicized. But a worthy goal in the eyes of many.

Ben
Seems a little unambitious...what if he improves over the next couple of years, e.g. Buchmann also took his time (btw Bora explicitly planned for him to develop over time and not try to push too hard too early) then why should he content himself with a domestique role? Granted if his TT stays woeful he will never compete for GC, but if he can improve that, why not try and go for GC?
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Old 08-20-20, 04:15 AM
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it's a really undervalued sector in professional racing...all the focus seems to be on the classics/one-days/worlds/olympics or the gt's.
very few riders focus exclusively on the 3 day-one week tours like paris-nice, tirreno, dauphine, romandie, suisse, toc (before it folded), etc.
nearly all riders use the multi-day races as training for the gt's. that's a total shame. there are more than a few riders that are fantastic
but missing one (or more) thing(s) in their cycling game (tt's for example). for every roglic that can do it all, we've got a lopez, porte,
kuss, mas, sivakov and tejay that are better suited for shorter tours. we've got specialists in the sport...why not here? cycling would be
better as a sport with more cyclists looking to crush the smaller tours for glory vs just training. sure...drag the guys into one gt a year as a
super domestique or even a protected rider but have one/two riders per team focused mainly on the short tours.

guessing if the prize money for the short tours were commensurate with the gt's percentage-wise, things might be different.
can you imagine if the dauphine paid out the same amount or more prize money than the tour de france? how many teams/riders would
blow off the tour in favor of the dauphine?

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