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Team Ineos is finished!

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Team Ineos is finished!

Old 09-13-20, 04:22 PM
  #26  
aclinjury
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they got caught by the whole covid thing and undertrained.
Jumbo trained like the Tour was gonna happen in July.
calling Ineos, the most well funded team in the sport, finished, is like calling the Yankees finished. Well funded teams will always be in play, unless you're the New York Knicks
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Old 09-13-20, 04:29 PM
  #27  
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They sure looked rough today. Bernal look like he didnt have his legs and was not a factor at the end of the race.
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Old 09-13-20, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
Right? He has gotten 21 seconds and will get more if the GC contenders arrive together, his kick is just stronger. It is very impressive. And given his ITT is so good, he can probably even afford to lose a minute, minus those 21 and minus any more to come he could easily make that up in the ITT against the others. Maybe not Poga, we saw what happened at the Slovenian national champs.
Actually, I was posting about Pogacar.
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Old 09-14-20, 12:51 AM
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Rumors going about that the Colombian riders who got cracked today are going to form an "unofficial" team, use Team Sky tactics to try to break the two Slovene riders in the 3rd week of the tour to propel Uran or Lopez into the yellow.
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Old 09-14-20, 02:39 AM
  #30  
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^good luck with that. confederations rarely seem to work. too many competing agendas. if it were old-school tdf national teams, then maybe.
the conspiracy theory part of me would love to see it however. go columbians!
and i like both uran and lopez. i really do. great riders. you'd have to combine them into one rider to match pogacar or roglic right now.

will be interesting to see ineos go stage hunting now to save their tour. amador, sivakov, carapaz and bernal are all capable and will have more freedom than they did.
it's not like the team can switch to a plan "b " since they only had a plan "a" and they are so far behind in all classifications. sivakov is riding better and seems to have recovered.
counting them out of stages 20 and 21 but that leaves four stages to hit it. thinking they nab one. i'll go with carapaz as a stage winner.

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Old 09-14-20, 02:51 AM
  #31  
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so happy to see so many young, new talents in the sport. a little reminiscent of the sea change in the nfl with quarterbacks. the accepted protocol back in the day
was to have the high draft pick/rookie sit on the bench a year or three and absorb knowledge. actually playing in the game is always the best teacher.
if wout were on team cofidis or direct-energie or ccc or lotto or ntt or israel instead of team jv, how would the race look currently?
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Old 09-14-20, 05:45 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by gpsblake View Post
Rumors going about that the Colombian riders who got cracked today are going to form an "unofficial" team, use Team Sky tactics to try to break the two Slovene riders in the 3rd week of the tour to propel Uran or Lopez into the yellow.
I call bs.

Not only that this would be crazy and Arkea and Ineos might want their riders to take it easy in order to get a stage win on Col de la Loze.

But moreover, TJV are too strong. Way too strong.
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Old 09-14-20, 08:09 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by gpsblake View Post
Rumors going about that the Colombian riders who got cracked today are going to form an "unofficial" team, use Team Sky tactics to try to break the two Slovene riders in the 3rd week of the tour to propel Uran or Lopez into the yellow.
That is a tactic more likely to play out within a single stage's breakaway group, than as a confederacy in a gc battle.

In order to work, the guys who are being targeted have to be plausibly vulnerable to being broken, and have to care that someone riding ahead will threaten their position. Only Uran and Lopez have any remaining hope from amongst the Colombian riders. There are a total of 4 Colombian riders still in the race on their respective teams, and only three of the four have reputations as good climbers. Pit those 4 riders against the collective firepower of TJV and UAE, and I'd put the odds on the two teams.

On top of that, Vaughters is going to be looking for chances to have one of his riders nab another stage win, and to keep Rigo on the podium. I can't see him as being willing to engage in a hair-brained scheme that could backfire and allow Lopez to push Uran off the podium.
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Old 09-14-20, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post

On top of that, Vaughters is going to be looking for chances to have one of his riders nab another stage win, and to keep Rigo on the podium. I can't see him as being willing to engage in a hair-brained scheme that could backfire and allow Lopez to push Uran off the podium.
Would love to see Powless grab one.
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Old 09-14-20, 05:51 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by ooga-booga View Post
^good luck with that. confederations rarely seem to work. too many competing agendas. if it were old-school tdf national teams, then maybe.
the conspiracy theory part of me would love to see it however. go columbians!
and i like both uran and lopez. i really do. great riders. you'd have to combine them into one rider to match pogacar or roglic right now.

will be interesting to see ineos go stage hunting now to save their tour. amador, sivakov, carapaz and bernal are all capable and will have more freedom than they did.
it's not like the team can switch to a plan "b " since they only had a plan "a" and they are so far behind in all classifications. sivakov is riding better and seems to have recovered.
counting them out of stages 20 and 21 but that leaves four stages to hit it. thinking they nab one. i'll go with carapaz as a stage winner.
I was surprised when Carapaz fell out of GC contention so fast. That was plan "b", and it failed before plan "a" went south.
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Old 09-15-20, 05:49 AM
  #36  
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I thought Chris Horner gave a very plausible reason for Ineos' rough tour this year.

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Old 09-15-20, 10:16 AM
  #37  
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Interesting that the groupe maillot jaune let Carapaz claw back 15 minutes today. If they were to do that again, he'd be back in contention. But they won't.
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Old 09-15-20, 08:15 PM
  #38  
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Another theory is the absence of Nicholas Portal (R.I.P.) has hurt Ineos a lot. He was the glue that held things together tactically for them.
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Old 09-15-20, 11:01 PM
  #39  
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if you're not setting the pre-prescribed pace, then you're being dictated to. and that's okay if your legs allow it. amador, sivakov, carapaz and the others are entirely capable with plenty of experience. you're telling me former world champ kwiatkowski that's done a bang-up job in the past (even before joining sky/ineos) suddenly forgot tactics/nuance/ability to read situations? no. or their road captain, luke rowe, that's been there, done that? no. ineos has run into a buzzsaw in team jv. ineos could have froome and thomas in the current tdf squad and both would need to be at their all-time, top fitness to have bernal (or the ineos team leader) within realistic striking distance of roglic. team jv doesn't currently have any gt weaknesses i can see. they can contest/control flat sprints. uphill/classics sprints. short/med/long flat/rolling/mtn tt's. mountaintop finishes. punchy stages. wind-blasted coastal stuff. you name it.
unsure what tactics the dearly departed tactician (rip) could have strategized to compensate for an injury and un jour sans
once carapaz dropped out of potential contention. it's team jv's tour to lose and the only rider that stands between them and the yellow jersey in paris is pogacar. his team is decimated but he just may be the strongest rider in the entire race. pity he has to contend with wout. gesink. kuss. roglic. g bennett. tony martin. jansen. and oh yeah...some new guy named dumou. that is one helluva squad. ineos/sky could still have wiggins at his "magical" best and it would still be a tough out
to defeat team jv. tactics are great but you need the legs to pull them off. ineos doesn't have them this year. back to the drawing board.

as posited on another thread in professional cycling, i thought ineos had a chance (especially with carapaz but possibly with a recovered sivakov) to snag one of the remaining mountain stages once bernal melted down. they finished 2nd and 4th respectively, today, and that was probably their best chance for the remaining tdf.

the good news for ineos...thomas and froomie have been able to focus on the remaining gt's and will likely have a leg up on most squads for the giro and the vuelta.

Last edited by ooga-booga; 09-15-20 at 11:11 PM.
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Old 09-16-20, 03:06 AM
  #40  
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Pog's issue is the cross-wind stage - he has to claim back time, if he wouldn't have to do that, he would beat Roglic for sure. He has already taken time from him, and he wouldn't need to attack early, and worry that Kuss can bring back Roglic. Plus he beat Roglic in the Slovenian ITT so he can probably repeat that here at the Tour, he certainly looks stronger.
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Old 09-16-20, 06:31 AM
  #41  
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Bernal has abandon the tour today
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Old 09-16-20, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed Wiser View Post
Bernal has abandon the tour today
No way! Man, they (commentators) were looking for him to try for the stage win today too.
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Old 09-17-20, 01:09 AM
  #43  
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Team Ineos looking forward to the Giro, which will be the test if they just suck, or their team manager just sucked by putting the TDF together. If Bernal got injured during a stage of the TDF this year, just bad luck for the team.
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Old 09-17-20, 02:08 AM
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Maybe he is a little injured, but for sure Bernal is not as good as Roglic / Pogacar.

Bernal's numbers from 2019 Col De l'Iseran would have put him at Porte's time on Queen Stage 17 yesterday.

Bernal won a Tour that was incredibly weak. I mean the two hardest competitors outside of his own team were Kruiswijk and Buchmann. Hardly the same level as Roglic and Pogacar. Lopez too was not there last year.

In fact, he will struggle to win another TdF ever. Roglic isn't that old. Pogacar is young, other young people are coming through, Remco, Pidcock. And his ITT is not amazing, so any TdF with a longer, flat one, or even multiple ones will also mean he probably won't win.

In terms of the Team - really? Who else does Ineos have right now? Just look at Froome and Thomas in Tirreno Adriatico. Couldn't even win that when the strongest riders are at the Tour right now...
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Old 09-17-20, 10:43 AM
  #45  
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Today, Team Ineos in the feel-good mountain stage win of this year's tour. With Carapaz in the polka dots.

A small consolation prize
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Old 09-17-20, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post

In fact, he will struggle to win another TdF ever. Roglic isn't that old. Pogacar is young, other young people are coming through, Remco, Pidcock. And his ITT is not amazing, so any TdF with a longer, flat one, or even multiple ones will also mean he probably won't win.
Bernal is 23. Don't count him out yet.

Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
In terms of the Team - really? Who else does Ineos have right now?
Carapaz
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Old 09-17-20, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
from the most dominant cycling team maybe ever (beside Merckx). No Froome, No Thomas

what happened and how did it happen so quickly??
I just gotta say my mea culpas here. at the outset, I thought this conclusion was premature, but you were right and I was wrong.
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Old 09-17-20, 12:14 PM
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Was Bernal injured at the Tour? I didn't think he was.
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Old 09-17-20, 12:18 PM
  #49  
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lol look at today's stage!! Ineos riding out front!
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Old 09-17-20, 12:56 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Bernal is 23. Don't count him out yet.



Carapaz
I meant all the people, also on here, criticizing the selection. I.e. that they didn't take Froome and Thomas. Carapaz is in the team so the "who else" does not apply to him.

Maybe, he did say that on stage 13 that he did his best numbers. The one that Martinez won. So yes he did apparently improve still and could continue to do so the next years, but he lost 38 seconds to Roglic and Pog and a few other GC guys were ahead of him. So last year when he did worse numbers on Col de l'Iseran and still gapped everyone else, just shows how weak last year's tour was.
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