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Team Ineos is finished!

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Team Ineos is finished!

Old 08-31-20, 09:59 AM
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Team Ineos is finished!

from the most dominant cycling team maybe ever (beside Merckx). No Froome, No Thomas

what happened and how did it happen so quickly??
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Old 08-31-20, 11:59 AM
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Their current form looks awful compared to what we are used to seeing, but I think it's premature to say they're altogether finished.
Bernal is still so young and they have the largest of any team budget, I'm thinking they'll remain near the top even if they don't dominate as they have in recent years.

But certainly they've had some setbacks . . .
Froome sustained a career-threatening injury and he's in his mid-30s so his form has dropped understandably.
Thomas, I wonder if he's had a hard time training effectively and staying race-fit during the lockdown. He didn't look strong in the Dauphine.
Sivakov has crashed twice already in this TDF and it's unclear how hurt he is, how effective he can be, etc
I have no reason to doubt Bernal, but I wonder if he will prove durable enough to be a repeat Grand Tour champ for years ahead . . . provided he has the team in place to support him.

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Old 08-31-20, 12:05 PM
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Bernal is the defending champion and Carapaz won the 2019 GIro. What did Thomas and Froome achieve in 2019?
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Old 08-31-20, 01:16 PM
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When I saw Jumbo Visma all riding at the front of the peleton on day 2, I was thinking ok, Ineos will match that and string this thing out, but they could not.

I've only been watching the tour for 5-6 years, and Sky/Ineos have dominated every one. Always able to ride to the front as a team and make the field suffer, but not now. They look weak

have seen Froome win 3 tours, Thomas 1. Things change quickly I guess
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Old 08-31-20, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
When I saw Jumbo Visma all riding at the front of the peleton on day 2, I was thinking ok, Ineos will match that and string this thing out, but they could not.

I've only been watching the tour for 5-6 years, and Sky/Ineos have dominated every one. Always able to ride to the front as a team and make the field suffer, but not now. They look weak

have seen Froome win 3 tours, Thomas 1. Things change quickly I guess
After just two stages, it's premature to say that Ineos cannot control the peloon. If you have any detailed memory of previous tours, you'll remember that no team tries to do this for all the stages, and in many cases, not even all the mountain stages.

Froome and Thomas's absence this year has nothing to do with whether the team can control the peloton. The stars don't do that work and so, you are confusing the identity of their stars with the depth of their team. Time will tell about the latter.

Presumably you also watched Bernal win the tour last year. Doesn't he count to Sky/Ineos's credit? His absence from your list of recent Sky/Ineos tour winners raises some suspicions.
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Old 08-31-20, 02:16 PM
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Also, you watched one mountain stage (in which both Bernal and Carapaz finished with no effective time penalty) and declared the team with the defending champion as "finished!" Either you have a crystal ball or you are jumping to conclusions based on a small sample.

I for one never rooted for Sky/Ineos in the Wiggins/Froome/Thomas days. Froome was never endearing to me plus the feeling that Sky's greatest strength was really just its fatter wallet left me cold. On the other hand, to me Bernal and Carapaz are much more sympathetic. Carapaz more than Bernal, perhaps because I also love Ecuador.

If all of you trash talk Sky/Ineos enough, I just might find myself rooting for them.

Last edited by MinnMan; 08-31-20 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 08-31-20, 02:51 PM
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Pay a little attention to strategy and races other than the TdF. Ineos is doing just fine, and they're riding for the reigning champ. He's 17 seconds behind the leader on stage 3, so he's in fine shape, with the mountains coming up. Nobody wants to take yellow on stage 1 and defend it for the entire tour.

Froome's accident last year took a substantial toll, he's leaving Ineos for Israel Startup Nation at the end of the season, and the TdF has reduced team sizes this year, so it's no surprise Brailsford opted to put his faith in Bernal. Froome and Thomas will each have dedicated support for the Giro and the Vuelta, so it's not as if Ineos just left $10 million dollars in salary lounging around the pool.
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Old 08-31-20, 07:16 PM
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didn't mean to exclude Bernal, he is great as well, and it's true most of my cycling viewing is the Tour. I guess time will tell
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Old 08-31-20, 09:59 PM
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I didn't see JV, UAE, Bahrain Merida, or Arkea Samsic drilling it on the front into the 3k mark. The marginal gains from a well oiled and still capable machine will mount up.
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Old 08-31-20, 10:57 PM
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not worried about ineos...they'll be just fine. i am a little worried about sivakov tho...had excellent form but has done a lot of pavement surfing
ranked him as one of the last guys to pull off driving the ineos/bernal mountain train with only carapaz remaining afterwards. sivakov has finished
waay down the ladder/nearly dfl on all three stages so far. hoping he can recover and show off the form he had.
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Old 09-01-20, 04:28 AM
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The current TdF and Giro champion in one team and it is "finished"?

Hyperbolic statement. If you mean their dominance is finished, maybe still to see what happens. For sure TJV and others are stronger and will contest Bernal, but that's about it.
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Old 09-01-20, 02:06 PM
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It does seem a little early to say they are finished. But, based on the Dauphine and the early TDF, they are going to have to really improve and work to defend Bernal's title from last year. Certainly JV looks strong. Imagine how they would look if Kruijswijk was present and healthy. Honestly, one team can't dominate in any sport year after year, without another team eventually catching and surpassing them. But, just one crash or missed break, and the tables could turn quickly!
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Old 09-01-20, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Also, you watched one mountain stage (in which both Bernal and Carapaz finished with no effective time penalty) and declared the team with the defending champion as "finished!" Either you have a crystal ball or you are jumping to conclusions based on a small sample.

I for one never rooted for Sky/Ineos in the Wiggins/Froome/Thomas days. Froome was never endearing to me plus the feeling that Sky's greatest strength was really just its fatter wallet left me cold. On the other hand, to me Bernal and Carapaz are much more sympathetic. Carapaz more than Bernal, perhaps because I also love Ecuador.

If all of you trash talk Sky/Ineos enough, I just might find myself rooting for them.
100% I really wasn't much of a fan of Sky/Ineos for the same reasons but it was great to see Bernal win last year. Jumbo Visma looks strong in the early stages but it is a long race and many things can happen.
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Old 09-01-20, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by aspalmat View Post
Certainly JV looks strong. Imagine how they would look if Kruijswijk was present and healthy. !
Yeah, uh, that doesn't count any more than "imagine how strong Ineos would look if Thomas was present and in good form."
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Old 09-01-20, 08:41 PM
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sivakov finished at the tail end again. didn't watch any of the stage today so dunno if he made early contributions and then bounced
or was holding on for dear life the entire time.
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Old 09-02-20, 08:55 AM
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When you are at the top so long everyone else gets to analyze your tactics and figures out how to respond. It's not unexpected and in some ways becomes more interesting.

Still, too early to count anyone out. Lets see whats happening at the end. While I don't root for Sky/Ineos, they've brought a lot of seemingly good methods and strategies of training and racing to the forefront, whether their own idea or just realizing the importance of something long known but little considered.
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Old 09-03-20, 12:03 PM
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Wouldn't call it more interesting. TJV does exactly the same now, control the pace, no one attacks, and Primoz drills it the last 500-1000m. Rinse and repeat. Stage 4 was a copy of both Tour de l'Ain and Dauphine pre crashes. Stage 6 today wasn't because there were no bonus seconds to be had and apart from Alaphillipe gaining 1 second, it was completely controlled by Primoz.
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Old 09-03-20, 06:58 PM
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Team Ineos may be finished with their reign of consecutive Tour winners. We will know for sure after stage 21.
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Old 09-04-20, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
Wouldn't call it more interesting. TJV does exactly the same now, control the pace, no one attacks, and Primoz drills it the last 500-1000m. Rinse and repeat. Stage 4 was a copy of both Tour de l'Ain and Dauphine pre crashes. Stage 6 today wasn't because there were no bonus seconds to be had and apart from Alaphillipe gaining 1 second, it was completely controlled by Primoz.
You didn't watch the same stage 6 that I did. The organizers created a masterful stage, but only a handful of riders with no Grand Tour ambitions took the bait. You can't blame that on TJL.

This said, I do agree with you about the tactics. It worked for US Postal/Discovery, a bit less well for CSC and Astana, and then again for Sky/Ineos. Until there are more radical changes (eliminating team radios is possibly the only thing that might be realisiticaly enforceable), there's little hope for team tactics to change. If you find a rider who's a great climber and a superior time-trialist, you hire him and surround him with domestiques to protect him who can set the pace going up the big climbs fast enough to render attacks by other GC contenders suicidal - rinse and repeat.
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Old 09-05-20, 11:19 AM
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If you only watch the tours to see all out balls to the wall performance then it will be boring. An understanding of all the competitions for different things within the overall competition makes even the relatively event-less till near the end stage 6 interesting.
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Old 09-06-20, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
You didn't watch the same stage 6 that I did. The organizers created a masterful stage, but only a handful of riders with no Grand Tour ambitions took the bait. You can't blame that on TJL.

This said, I do agree with you about the tactics. It worked for US Postal/Discovery, a bit less well for CSC and Astana, and then again for Sky/Ineos. Until there are more radical changes (eliminating team radios is possibly the only thing that might be realisiticaly enforceable), there's little hope for team tactics to change. If you find a rider who's a great climber and a superior time-trialist, you hire him and surround him with domestiques to protect him who can set the pace going up the big climbs fast enough to render attacks by other GC contenders suicidal - rinse and repeat.
Well this stage for sure was different. TJV had 6 at the front for a long time but then the pace went up and they dropped like flies, then Poga attacked and the favorites got torn apart. Though the 2nd group finished just what, 11 seconds behind so not that much lost. Still 7 riders within 1 minute. Poga looks strongest right now. He kept up despite attacking yesterday.
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Old 09-06-20, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
Well this stage for sure was different. TJV had 6 at the front for a long time but then the pace went up and they dropped like flies, then Poga attacked and the favorites got torn apart. Though the 2nd group finished just what, 11 seconds behind so not that much lost. Still 7 riders within 1 minute. Poga looks strongest right now. He kept up despite attacking yesterday.
It has become a very rare thing for there to be a rider who is consistently strong enough to put in attacks and make them stick. It is even rarer for them to no have a director who dictates that they only counter-attack. I guess Stephens and Peiper are smart enough to know what they have, and realize that the strategy that's been in ascendance of the past 30 years isn't suited for their rider. It doesn't hurt that he's strong enough to put time into everyone else when he picks his points to make his attacks. Reminds me of Contador in some respects - but with a better instinct for winning a contested sprint.
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Old 09-07-20, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
It has become a very rare thing for there to be a rider who is consistently strong enough to put in attacks and make them stick. It is even rarer for them to no have a director who dictates that they only counter-attack. I guess Stephens and Peiper are smart enough to know what they have, and realize that the strategy that's been in ascendance of the past 30 years isn't suited for their rider. It doesn't hurt that he's strong enough to put time into everyone else when he picks his points to make his attacks. Reminds me of Contador in some respects - but with a better instinct for winning a contested sprint.
Right? He has gotten 21 seconds and will get more if the GC contenders arrive together, his kick is just stronger. It is very impressive. And given his ITT is so good, he can probably even afford to lose a minute, minus those 21 and minus any more to come he could easily make that up in the ITT against the others. Maybe not Poga, we saw what happened at the Slovenian national champs.
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Old 09-11-20, 09:17 AM
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I think they are now. Bernal couldn't even keep up with the others today. Finished a measly 18th with almost no one else from Ineos around him. Good. Not an Ineos fan anyway.
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Old 09-13-20, 03:48 PM
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Well, now Ineos is finished.
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