Notices
Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

UCI Bans 'Super Tuck'

Old 02-06-21, 06:56 PM
  #1  
one4smoke
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Nashville, TN.
Posts: 2,087

Bikes: 2020 Specialized Roubaix Comp SC - 2016 Specialized Roubaix SL4 - 2015 Giant Roam 2 Disc

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 607 Post(s)
Liked 250 Times in 175 Posts
UCI Bans 'Super Tuck'

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/9205/...nding-position
one4smoke is offline  
Old 02-06-21, 07:35 PM
  #2  
sdmc530
Heft On Wheels
 
sdmc530's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 2,893

Bikes: Specialized,Cannondale,Argon 18

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked 393 Times in 262 Posts
GCN said the same thing maybe a week ago. I think its probably a good idea, Looks silly to me and probably really dangerous. I would try it to see how it is but don't have enough bravery to try it
sdmc530 is offline  
Old 02-07-21, 01:27 PM
  #3  
_ForceD_
Senior Member
 
_ForceD_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,552

Bikes: Several...from old junk to new all-carbon.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 672 Post(s)
Liked 248 Times in 136 Posts
Just wondering if the super tuck has been wind tunnel tested just to see/prove how much more efficient it is. And, whether the added danger would be worth the risk.

Dan
_ForceD_ is offline  
Old 02-07-21, 01:41 PM
  #4  
nomadmax 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,784
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 799 Post(s)
Liked 1,079 Times in 539 Posts
When the first guy used it and gained ground on chasers, it became "faster". When it comes to descending, just believing you're faster/better/more aerodynamic can sometimes make it true. And there's tumbling down the road at 50-60 mph.

I'd rather see a racer risk their life descending than with PEDs. At least with descending, they'll know the health ramifications right away.
__________________
nomadmax is offline  
Likes For nomadmax:
Old 02-07-21, 01:56 PM
  #5  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 9,507

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2869 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,382 Times in 938 Posts
That the super-tuck is faster is a no-brainer. You are roughly the same aero shape but have roughly 3/4s of a square foot smaller cross-section to present to the wind.

I applaud this move. Racing is racing. Rules are rules. Change the rules and what happens changes to adopt. The competition stays the same. (Yes, rule changes always favor some and hinder others. Banning EPO hurt those who gained enormously from it and helped those for whom it did little.)

Young riders have always copied the pros and always will. Some adolescents and teens bombing hills on top tubes will end up in ERs (or worse). Taking this away won't stop those now who have already seen the pros doing it but the kids not yet born will grow up where it is banned by all racing authorities and they have known nothing else.
79pmooney is offline  
Old 02-07-21, 02:00 PM
  #6  
Iride01
Hits [ENTER] b4 thinking
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 7,082

Bikes: '20 Tarmac Disc Comp '91 Schwinn Paramount '78 Raleigh Competition GS

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2764 Post(s)
Liked 1,385 Times in 1,012 Posts
There many other rules that control various aspects of bike setup that keep the riders body within certain constraints. Many with safety of the rider as well as other riders in mind. So this to me is just another one of them.

It's neither good nor bad to me as long as enforcement is equally applied when there are infractions.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 02-07-21, 02:54 PM
  #7  
sdmc530
Heft On Wheels
 
sdmc530's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 2,893

Bikes: Specialized,Cannondale,Argon 18

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked 393 Times in 262 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post

It's neither good nor bad to me as long as enforcement is equally applied when there are infractions.
This^^^^^ The UCI is not always on top of equal application of rules.


If I remember right GCN said they did it for the safety issues. Makes logic, can't have much control in that tuck if the crap hits the fan.
sdmc530 is offline  
Likes For sdmc530:
Old 02-07-21, 05:56 PM
  #8  
Gyro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: lost
Posts: 412
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 17 Posts
Did they get that sock length thing sorted out?
Gyro is offline  
Likes For Gyro:
Old 02-07-21, 10:33 PM
  #9  
cubewheels
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Manila, Philippines
Posts: 1,784

Bikes: A really old BMX bike, Phantom 20 kid's MTB, Jackal Mio Gravel Bike

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked 363 Times in 292 Posts
Glad UCI did the ban.

If even a small branch or stone unluckily landed right in front of a rider sitting at the top tube, that's it.

Strong gust of wind can also blow the rear wheels sideways since the rider's weight is mostly over the front wheel when on the toptube.
cubewheels is offline  
Old 02-08-21, 12:08 PM
  #10  
2seven0
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: O.C. CA
Posts: 155

Bikes: A few

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 88 Times in 40 Posts
I'm curious if there are any documented crashes in any race mens or womens that the rider directly attributed to being in the super-tuck position as the deciding factor when it occured.
2seven0 is offline  
Old 02-08-21, 05:02 PM
  #11  
gsa103
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,401

Bikes: Bianchi Infinito (Celeste, of course)

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 752 Post(s)
Liked 103 Times in 76 Posts
I haven't seen a crash, but it would be bad. I'm predicting a sudden interest in dropper seatposts. Same benefit but legal.
gsa103 is offline  
Old 02-09-21, 09:51 AM
  #12  
Iride01
Hits [ENTER] b4 thinking
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 7,082

Bikes: '20 Tarmac Disc Comp '91 Schwinn Paramount '78 Raleigh Competition GS

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2764 Post(s)
Liked 1,385 Times in 1,012 Posts
And now even riding with your arms in a aero time trial position when on a road bike.

There was also a lot of other safety things in the new rulings that might be more apparent in their need, but these two things will be debated back and forth. Pro's seem to be on both sides of the new rulings on super tuck and riding road bikes as if you had aero bars, but too few to see where any majority lie.

There were some rules on barricade construction and where bottles can be thrown. As for bottles, it did seem to me that there were a lot of bottles on the 2020 Tdf and Veutla that wound up in the road among the riders than I've seen previously. Some were thrown and bounced back in. Other bottles were thrown and never made it out of the group.

Though perhaps the bottle thing is just something I started noticing more and it's always been that way.

Last edited by Iride01; 02-09-21 at 09:57 AM.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 02-09-21, 08:58 PM
  #13  
ShannonM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Humboldt County, CA
Posts: 289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 123 Times in 83 Posts
I think there's an underlying thing buried in all of this.

I've read several people, all of whom seem to know what they're talking about, who have linked the apparent increase in both the frequency and severity of crashes to the modern, aero-focused, low-handlebar / high-saddle riding position. The argument is that the weight distribution inherent to this position on a diamond-frame bicycle makes the bike / rider unit less dynamically stable, and thus more likely to, as the aviators say, "depart from controlled flight."

If that's true, and I'll state that I think it's likely that it is, should bar / saddle drop be regulated? If so, how?

--Shannon
ShannonM is online now  
Old 02-12-21, 10:21 AM
  #14  
EventServices
Announcer
 
EventServices's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Detroit's North Side.
Posts: 5,094

Bikes: More than I need, really.

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 6 Posts
The UCI is dragging their riders - kicking and screaming - in the direction of safety and health.

Iljo Keisse (deceunick quickstep) spent time on Twitter yesterday drawing false comparisons to other sports suggesting that the UCI should back off since other sports have dangerous elements to them. Trying to compare road racing to ski jumping.
He has since taken down the tweets.
EventServices is offline  
Old 02-13-21, 10:39 PM
  #15  
vane171
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 204 Post(s)
Liked 59 Times in 43 Posts
So, does anyone here recall a crash directly linked to this tuck position? Or is it simply envious or carebears winning under false pretense of concern for safety?
vane171 is offline  
Old 02-13-21, 11:43 PM
  #16  
Ferrouscious 
Some Weirdo
 
Ferrouscious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Rexburg, ID
Posts: 502

Bikes: '86 Maruishi Excellence, '86 Schwinn Prelude, '88 Cannondale SR2000, '74 C. Itoh "Racer"

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked 139 Times in 90 Posts
I think seeing after seeing a young and very promising rider like Remco crash on a descent, the UCI thought it was time to call it. Kid couldn't walk for months.
Ferrouscious is offline  
Old 02-14-21, 01:25 PM
  #17  
vane171
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 204 Post(s)
Liked 59 Times in 43 Posts
Well, how about bikes with aero slammed down cockpit with riders touching bars with their jaws, barely squinting with their eyes up to see where they are going... that position is also a safety hazard. Riding like that also makes it hard to respond to a sudden situation developing on the road. The only safe position on a bike is a nice upright one as we older farts are riding like and it should be put into racing rules for safety's sake.

If the young budding racer wannabees see those aero tuck positions of the pro racers, they will try to emulate it in the amateur setting where it is doubly dangerous and get hurt. Only hope is for the next generation of young cyclists who will never see those bad examples in races because it will have been banned before their time and they will have known nothing else...

Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Young riders have always copied the pros and always will. Some adolescents and teens bombing hills on top tubes will end up in ERs (or worse). Taking this away won't stop those now who have already seen the pros doing it but the kids not yet born will grow up where it is banned by all racing authorities and they have known nothing else.
Yours is the world in which I wouldn't like to live, where powers that be outlaw behavior that doesn't force anyone to anything but just gives example for others to follow. I believe you ride fixie bikes, right? Well, those should be banned by your example, they are road safety hazard, period, and give bad example to others who are unsuspecting to the undisputable hazard that they are! There are no two ways about it.

It might interest you that I did get a fixie bike once because I saw it when visiting NYC in 1980s when most if not all town bike couriers rode fixie bikes and many without any brakes. Seeing that example and being impressionable young in those days, I also got me a fixie and to boot, without any brakes. Nobody even warned me about fixie hazard regarding its kicking horse like behavior, in those days there were no forums to plumb more experienced bikers. And on my next NYC visit, I spent days pleasure riding like a dare devil in downtown Manhattan streets in traffic, ignoring red lights as was a fashion, thing to do in those days.

In the impoverished world of yours, in which hazardous behaviors would be ruled out, or even outlawed, like smoking is banned from movies (I think, from advertising anyway) because it gives bad example to young ones unsuspecting of its health hazards, would the life be as worth living as it was for me with those 'bad examples' I was not shielded from? Mind you, I never smoked even if that was a thing to do still when I was growing up, my father and all my brothers smoking to boot? You see, one is free to choose to follow the examples that life offers and it is, or should be up to anyone to choose.

Last edited by vane171; 02-14-21 at 01:31 PM.
vane171 is offline  
Old 02-14-21, 02:58 PM
  #18  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 9,507

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2869 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,382 Times in 938 Posts
Originally Posted by vane171 View Post
Well, how about bikes with aero slammed down cockpit with riders touching bars with their jaws, barely squinting with their eyes up to see where they are going... that position is also a safety hazard. Riding like that also makes it hard to respond to a sudden situation developing on the road. The only safe position on a bike is a nice upright one as we older farts are riding like and it should be put into racing rules for safety's sake.

If the young budding racer wannabees see those aero tuck positions of the pro racers, they will try to emulate it in the amateur setting where it is doubly dangerous and get hurt. Only hope is for the next generation of young cyclists who will never see those bad examples in races because it will have been banned before their time and they will have known nothing else...



Yours is the world in which I wouldn't like to live, where powers that be outlaw behavior that doesn't force anyone to anything but just gives example for others to follow. I believe you ride fixie bikes, right? Well, those should be banned by your example, they are road safety hazard, period, and give bad example to others who are unsuspecting to the undisputable hazard that they are! There are no two ways about it.

..
Huh? Yes, putting your chin just above the bar is asking for a cracked jaw. We were taught to stay behind the bar and to one side of the stem when going aero for just that reason. Seemed to work. I never heard of anything awful happening.

Fix gears - I have always ridden with two very good brakes and make no secret of it. You can see them in my logo photo. Many here have heard me talk about it. More than half my lifetime miles are fix gear and my accident rate is no higher than on my freewheel bikes.

And banning behavior? Inserting rules into sports to protect the athletes is nothing new. When that athlete steps away from the court, playing field or race venue, those rules no longer apply. (He might have restrictions on his conduct and risk-taking in his free time, but that is between him and his team and written into a contact he signed.) This is hardly an encroachment on freedom. (I'm guessing you have trouble watching NFL games with that freedom robbing no helmet hits stuff.)
79pmooney is offline  
Old 02-14-21, 03:00 PM
  #19  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 9,507

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2869 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,382 Times in 938 Posts
Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
I think seeing after seeing a young and very promising rider like Remco crash on a descent, the UCI thought it was time to call it. Kid couldn't walk for months.
Was Remco in a super-tuck?
79pmooney is offline  
Old 02-16-21, 01:29 PM
  #20  
vane171
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 204 Post(s)
Liked 59 Times in 43 Posts
Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Was Remco in a super-tuck?
I also don't know if he was but likely was since it seems implied from that post. Thing is, even if he was and crashed because of that, you could say it is due to some miss-judgement on his part and if you miss-judge in the normal bike riding position while descending, you also crash, there are many more numerous examples of that.

But that said, I mainly don't like the justification for the restriction, that it gives bad example to non-pro or young riders.
vane171 is offline  
Old 02-16-21, 06:35 PM
  #21  
cubewheels
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Manila, Philippines
Posts: 1,784

Bikes: A really old BMX bike, Phantom 20 kid's MTB, Jackal Mio Gravel Bike

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked 363 Times in 292 Posts
Originally Posted by gsa103 View Post
I haven't seen a crash, but it would be bad. I'm predicting a sudden interest in dropper seatposts. Same benefit but legal.
I already use "dropper post" in some sort of meaning in a road bike in a "dropper tuck" posture and managed to bag some downhill trophies in Strava on a non-aero bike, non cycling kit, without even trying!

It's heaps better than anything else, most importantly, it's safe, even improves handling and braking, and actually comfortable.
cubewheels is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.