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Froome no like discs

Old 02-09-21, 08:04 PM
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Doge
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Froome no like discs

Lots of disc threads. This one from what was the top. Current TdF winner did not do it with discs.
https://cyclingtips.com/2021/02/chri...U3mE_E15hrEBSM
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Old 02-10-21, 02:19 PM
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You don't have any thoughts on this yourself?

Just posting a view of someone else just seems like you must be sitting back with your bowl of popcorn to see where this goes.
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Old 02-11-21, 10:43 PM
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Couldn't care less what Froome thinks about disc brakes. I like 'em!
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Old 02-12-21, 01:14 AM
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fausto

Two years ago Fausto Pinarello didnt want disc brakes on his racing bikes !
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Old 02-13-21, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
You don't have any thoughts on this yourself?

Just posting a view of someone else just seems like you must be sitting back with your bowl of popcorn to see where this goes.
I have 2X the posts you do and mostly expressing my opinions about racing. I have posted many times that I would not have a team using discs. You can search that. I go into details why. I know pros and those that make racing stuff (discs and rim brakes) and my kid rides with them, so my opinions are not from the press.

The winning TdF team riders use both. The TdF winner used rim brakes. Some teammates of his use discs. I don't think the whole disc thing is at all settled.

In non UCI races you can typically cut a pound without discs, and do simpler wheel changes and eliminate rubbing. So my opinion is similar to that of the OP.
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Old 02-13-21, 11:47 PM
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I kind of feel OP didn't need to add his opinion in this case, just brought the article to attention. That said, I favor very much that original posters should have an opinion, not just ask what others think, as frequently happens (it is sort of like playing a boss here which naturally irritates).

Froome's bike is top of the line and that probably makes it into a more sensitive machine than more tried and true tech on production bikes for the rest of us. But if those disk brakes are what anybody can buy, then what he says should be of concern, mainly that about pistons rubbing. What is more damming is that his bike is serviced by pros. That should give a pause to the rest of us.
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Old 02-14-21, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
You don't have any thoughts on this yourself?

Just posting a view of someone else just seems like you must be sitting back with your bowl of popcorn to see where this goes.
God has more posts than you, so STFU
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Old 02-14-21, 04:06 PM
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Froome listens to Primus and Bad Brains when hes doing housework. I trust his judgement.
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Old 02-15-21, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by vane171 View Post
I kind of feel OP didn't need to add his opinion in this case, just brought the article to attention. That said, I favor very much that original posters should have an opinion, not just ask what others think, as frequently happens (it is sort of like playing a boss here which naturally irritates).

Froome's bike is top of the line and that probably makes it into a more sensitive machine than more tried and true tech on production bikes for the rest of us. But if those disk brakes are what anybody can buy, then what he says should be of concern, mainly that about pistons rubbing. What is more damming is that his bike is serviced by pros. That should give a pause to the rest of us.
he is in California on his own. Not sure whether he has a team mechanic but guessing no and he is kind of on his own or a local shop.
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Old 02-15-21, 11:52 PM
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I have 3 disk brake bikes and I've never had a problem with rubbing rotors. Noisy brakes? oh, that's annoying for sure, but it doesn't slow me down.

Maybe I'm lucky or just too dumb to notice the problem.
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Old 02-17-21, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
I have 2X the posts you do and mostly expressing my opinions about racing. I have posted many times that I would not have a team using discs. You can search that. I go into details why. I know pros and those that make racing stuff (discs and rim brakes) and my kid rides with them, so my opinions are not from the press.

The winning TdF team riders use both. The TdF winner used rim brakes. Some teammates of his use discs. I don't think the whole disc thing is at all settled.

In non UCI races you can typically cut a pound without discs, and do simpler wheel changes and eliminate rubbing. So my opinion is similar to that of the OP.
No, I'm not going to go back and research what your views are in order to figure out what it is you want to discuss.

A lot of things like discs that have been around for years are still not "settled". Probably won't ever be as long as people don't realize that in everyday riding with no particular goal that it just doesn't matter. They both stop you when you want to stop. So it's a personal preference thing. Even in the professional world, it might be a tactical thing looking a the particular course and rider and deciding what has more pros and cons for that days ride. Don't know, I'm only a spectator.

You sure it's a full pound still? It's been a while, but off the top of my head, some time ago I added up the difference in weights for rim and disc in the DuraAce line. I'm thinking I only came up with 5 ounces difference between the two for both front and rear combined. Now if you are comparing disk to rim that are not in the same tier group, then yeah, maybe as much as a pound difference. But I might be wrong. Just like you want me to go back and research your views, you can do the research to prove me wrong.

Yeah wheel changes are probably quicker for rim with QR's and rim makes for less chance of issues grabbing a wheel from a neutral support vehicle in races supported by them. However in the last few tours, how many times has anything been grabbed from a neutral support vehicle, wheel or bike?

Last edited by Iride01; 02-17-21 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 02-17-21, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by one4smoke View Post
Couldn't care less what Froome thinks about disc brakes. I like 'em!
Couldn't care less what Froome thinks... period.
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Old 02-18-21, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
So my opinion is similar to that of the OP.
I would hope so, since you're the OP.
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Old 02-21-21, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
No, I'm not going to go back and research what your views are in order to figure out what it is you want to discuss.

A lot of things like discs that have been around for years are still not "settled". Probably won't ever be as long as people don't realize that in everyday riding with no particular goal that it just doesn't matter. They both stop you when you want to stop. So it's a personal preference thing. Even in the professional world, it might be a tactical thing looking a the particular course and rider and deciding what has more pros and cons for that days ride. Don't know, I'm only a spectator.

You sure it's a full pound still? It's been a while, but off the top of my head, some time ago I added up the difference in weights for rim and disc in the DuraAce line. I'm thinking I only came up with 5 ounces difference between the two for both front and rear combined. Now if you are comparing disk to rim that are not in the same tier group, then yeah, maybe as much as a pound difference. But I might be wrong. Just like you want me to go back and research your views, you can do the research to prove me wrong.

Yeah wheel changes are probably quicker for rim with QR's and rim makes for less chance of issues grabbing a wheel from a neutral support vehicle in races supported by them. However in the last few tours, how many times has anything been grabbed from a neutral support vehicle, wheel or bike?
Discs use heavier forks, disks, hydro cables and fluid reservouir. That said, you can still meet the 6.8kg with discs. I can do an easy cable and rim build under 12# with DA shifters and steel spindle cranks. But the bigger issue to me is service/spares. You now, mostly have to swap a bike. That costs a bit for a pro team.
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Old 02-21-21, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Het Volk View Post
he is in California on his own. Not sure whether he has a team mechanic but guessing no and he is kind of on his own or a local shop.
Wat? Not that I would considder that any kind of personal attack, as I like bike shops.

I've had pros stage and piss 100m (or in) my property not less than 6 months ago and not in CA. I have no idea why that would matter.

Or are you referring to Froome?
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Old 02-21-21, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Wat? Not that I would considder that any kind of personal attack, as I like bike shops.

I've had pros stage and piss 100m (or in) my property not less than 6 months ago and not in CA. I have no idea why that would matter.

Or are you referring to Froome?
Yes - this is potentially a reason that his set-up is not dialed in as it would be when in the care of Team Mechanics day-in and day-out during the season.
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Old 02-21-21, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Discs use heavier forks, disks, hydro cables and fluid reservouir. That said, you can still meet the 6.8kg with discs. I can do an easy cable and rim build under 12# with DA shifters and steel spindle cranks. But the bigger issue to me is service/spares. You now, mostly have to swap a bike. That costs a bit for a pro team.
Well that's an interesting perspective I've not really considered. Myself, just being a spectator of the high dollar hungry UCI tours and one day classics, I've sort of grown accustomed to the team having spare bikes on top the team cars that are worth more together than my home.

I suppose it is a drain to teams sanctioned under other organizations that don't demand big money. I don't have any idea what neutral support is like among them or anything. Might you sort of be alluding that maybe it's unfair for them to be allowing so much diversity of equipment and that reduces the chances of the more cash strapped teams even when they have just as good cyclists as the other teams?

That might be a hard thing to keep the talking on track in this type forum with all us arm-chair QB types.
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Old 02-21-21, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Well that's an interesting perspective I've not really considered. Myself, just being a spectator of the high dollar hungry UCI tours and one day classics, I've sort of grown accustomed to the team having spare bikes on top the team cars that are worth more together than my home.

I suppose it is a drain to teams sanctioned under other organizations that don't demand big money. I don't have any idea what neutral support is like among them or anything. Might you sort of be alluding that maybe it's unfair for them to be allowing so much diversity of equipment and that reduces the chances of the more cash strapped teams even when they have just as good cyclists as the other teams?

That might be a hard thing to keep the talking on track in this type forum with all us arm-chair QB types.
Most the pro teams do have spare bikes. When away from the car, a like sized teammate would sacrifice their bike for GC, but now they are out. It used to be they could just sacrifice a wheel and wait for the MAVIC (or other) neutral support motorcycle and be back on the road. Now they mostly need to wait for a car.

Forgetting the UCI races and big teams, I drove support for a lot of USAC races. Wheels-In/Wheels-Out is common. And even when it is not, finding a rider's own wheels in the back of a car/pickup is not a smooth easy to do thing. Getting a random disc braked wheel Having that disc off 1-2mm means it is rubbing. If the idea is to get home, you are probbably OK, if it is to chase back into the race, it would not be my choice.
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Old 02-21-21, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Most the pro teams do have spare bikes. When away from the car, a like sized teammate would sacrifice their bike for GC, but now they are out. It used to be they could just sacrifice a wheel and wait for the MAVIC (or other) neutral support motorcycle and be back on the road. Now they mostly need to wait for a car.

Forgetting the UCI races and big teams, I drove support for a lot of USAC races. Wheels-In/Wheels-Out is common. And even when it is not, finding a rider's own wheels in the back of a car/pickup is not a smooth easy to do thing. Getting a random disc braked wheel Having that disc off 1-2mm means it is rubbing. If the idea is to get home, you are probbably OK, if it is to chase back into the race, it would not be my choice.
Well to an extent, I sort of asking or wondering if it would be more fair to the cyclists if the type of bike and its components were even more rigidly controlled for pro races. Then it would be more simple to pull any wheel or bike from a neutral service car or whatever. However I doubt the manufacturers that sponsor the races will be very supportive since it might change up what has been a great way for them to introduce new technology. It would however even up things slightly more to where you can say it's truly this guy over that guy instead of this guy with that bike over that guy with a lesser bike.

Where would we recreational guys be if we couldn't say our brand of bike won more TdF's than another brand? <grin>

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Old 02-21-21, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Well to an extent, I sort of asking or wondering if it would be more fair to the cyclists if the type of bike and its components were even more rigidly controlled for pro races. Then it would be more simple to pull any wheel or bike from a neutral service car or whatever. However I doubt the manufacturers that sponsor the races will be very supportive since it might change up what has been a great way for them to introduce new technology. It would however even up things slightly more to where you can say it's truly this guy over that guy instead of this guy with that bike over that guy with a lesser bike.
"Fair" is a bit based on what you considder the competition. Trying to figure out the best mix of equipment and riders (so the guys riding the same sized bike as your GC guy, are near your GC guy) makes it all part of the bigger competition. What makes the tour fun to watch for me is that based on so many variables, we have our favorites, but anything can happen. Its not unlike, well it is no where as bad as, the America's cup where they went from boats that dsiplaced water to ones that pretty much fly. We all understand that is as much about the engineers and programmers as the captains. Personally - me - I'd dump all electronics (GPS, HR, power, speed, radios) and support cars and see who figured it out the best on their own. That is not the modern WT format, so I adapt.
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Old 02-21-21, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
"Fair" is a bit based on what you considder the competition. Trying to figure out the best mix of equipment and riders (so the guys riding the same sized bike as your GC guy, are near your GC guy) makes it all part of the bigger competition. What makes the tour fun to watch for me is that based on so many variables, we have our favorites, but anything can happen. Its not unlike, well it is no where as bad as, the America's cup where they went from boats that dsiplaced water to ones that pretty much fly. We all understand that is as much about the engineers and programmers as the captains. Personally - me - I'd dump all electronics (GPS, HR, power, speed, radios) and support cars and see who figured it out the best on their own. That is not the modern WT format, so I adapt.
I miss the mono-hulls too in the Americas Cup. The new boats are amazing technology, but they remove a lot of the human interest other than to say someone didn't react quick enough.
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Old 02-21-21, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I miss the mono-hulls too in the Americas Cup. The new boats are amazing technology, but they remove a lot of the human interest other than to say someone didn't react quick enough.
I don't miss the old 12 Meters. I've gone far faster on a 24' ocean racing monohull that was far more seaworthy than those lead mines. (And cost 0.10% as much, new.) Probably went faster on my hiking straps only, no spinnaker 15 footer. Close on my 12 footer when the 12s were still being raced.
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Old 02-22-21, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
where you can say it's truly this guy over that guy instead of this guy with that bike over that guy with a lesser bike.>
I still see bike difference as negligible when it comes to performance, even winning. I mean, you can ride a bike that is certified to be better in wind tunnels (or whatever) and if you don't have good day physically, even mentally, it all means nothing. I bet you that most times, if the race winner rode the same bike as the guy who came in last, very likely he would still win.
In other sports, like cross country skiing, the equipment can make huge difference if your support staff needs to wax your skis as in a classic style race.


Only way to make the bike hardware to count would be to make the rules like forbidding whole bike swap (unless maybe after a crash but not because it somehow mechanically failed in some way) and basically very strictly regulate the help you could receive even from the fellow riders, like it was in the very old days. Then and only then would bike material choice matter and you as amateur could be justly proud of riding the same bike make as the winners. But as it is, bike racing is not about bikes anymore, it is all about the physical performance of the riders themselves (contributing to the rise of doping). By contrast, in 1950s the bike reliability counted easily as much as the rider fitness.

Don't take the suggestion as too literally, you couldn't make it as in those old days but maybe team cars carrying whole bikes for bike swap could be eliminated, you could only swap from a team mate and after a crash that broke the bike, only from neutral support. That would shorten the support tail that follows those big ticket races, make the teams think twice about feathery light machines that get damaged by a wind blow and riders would think twice before descending dangerously, etc.

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Old 04-04-21, 05:34 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post

Yeah wheel changes are probably quicker for rim with QR's and rim makes for less chance of issues grabbing a wheel from a neutral support vehicle in races supported by them. However in the last few tours, how many times has anything been grabbed from a neutral support vehicle, wheel or bike?
Apparently in the Tour Down Under, both in 2016 and 2018, riders simply borrowed spectator bikes.

One would expect the team support vehicle to be following the team leaders, but apparently sometimes they just aren't available. And, of course,any other team members can get slim pickings.
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Old 04-08-21, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Apparently in the Tour Down Under, both in 2016 and 2018, riders simply borrowed spectator bikes.

One would expect the team support vehicle to be following the team leaders, but apparently sometimes they just aren't available. And, of course,any other team members can get slim pickings.
Against UCI rules, but since rules are arbitrarily applied - guess that doesn't matter. Must have seemed legal that day.
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