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France’s Most Wanted (Wo)Man

Old 06-27-21, 10:30 PM
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Life imprisonment sounds fair.
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Old 06-27-21, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by colombo357
Life imprisonment sounds fair.
Send her the bill for a couple of these... and a few broken wheels. Even scuffed groupsets.



She'll quickly figure out that the riders aren't riding on Huffy bikes.
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Old 06-28-21, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by tyrion
Responding to the portion of your quote that I bolded: if you want to punish people for breaking the rules, the rules must be clearly stated.

What are the rules? Don't break that vertical plane where the pavement starts? Arrest everyone that breaks that plane? Ok, clearly state it and enforce it.

I think that's the wrong way to go. This was an accident, a mistake, a stupid mistake, not an attempt to ruin the event.

In sports there are lots of malevolent heated behaviors, but this was just an accident.
First thing everybody should know - being ignorant of laws is not any excuse if you breach one.

As to it being a mistake, not intentional, stupidity, you still are going to be apprehended and prosecuted even if that is the case. There is a legal formulation for such cases as I have outlined in my post. There are cases prosecuted where no harm happens, simply for acting so as to cause dangerous situation. Suppose you make a mistake and enter a highway against traffic. If you get caught, you will be prosecuted no matter that there was no traffic at the time and you were able to correct your mistake by exiting the highway before something happened. Its called endangering or some such formulation.

If a buss drive is careless or stupid and causes a crash, he will be prosecuted without doubt even if he didn't intend to crash, that it was 'just an accident'.

For this particular case, you don't need some rules specific to sport or to races or more specific to bike races, or for totally stupid, TDF races, or for those abysmally stupid, law for this one particular TDF race, maybe even for that particular location.

Originally Posted by CliffordK
Send her the bill for a couple of these... and a few broken wheels. Even scuffed groupsets.
She'll quickly figure out that the riders aren't riding on Huffy bikes.
Apparently several bikes have been totaled, that is destroyed frame. Someone will pay that no doubt, most likely team sponsors.

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Old 06-28-21, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ald1
Hey Caretaker. Sorry maybe I should have phased things better. I have followed cycling and love the fact that their are spectators along the road cheering. It does make this sport unique. What I'm surprised about is how they let this go on
and give celeberty status to idoits that get on the road and interfer with the athletes (devil guy?) I think this is a case of "looking the other way" far too much and perhaps this recent tragety will spur positive action with some stricter enforcement(s). I am aware of the massive media campaigns urging fans to be respectful but until they dole out consequences for these actions nothing will change. Maybe finding this lady and suing her would be a good start.
Devil guy? Are you referring to Didi the Devil, a Tour feature for many years? That guy doesn't 'interfere' with the riders.

There's people like this lady with the sign and others with phone-cameras who behave as if the race is a personal photo-op and sometimes get in the way. Yes they need to be stepped on but no matter what they will still keep appearing, it's the nature of society today. The idea that stupidity can be somehow policed to an individual level over a course that's thousands of kilometres long and stretches over a three week period is just delusional.

The crowds on major climbs are part of these 3-week tours and while they may seem dangerous or unruly to the average person by and large these are experienced fans who don't let their enthusiasm get out of control. There will always be exceptions and they will be highlighted on TV and YouTube to the extent where they appear the norm, they aren't.
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Old 06-28-21, 08:38 AM
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I tend to side with tyrion . It was a stupid mistake. You can prosecute and throw in jail all the stupid you want to and there'll still be stupid stuff happen.

While the ASO apparently is going to try and sue the person, they'll spend more money in litigation than they'll ever recover. About the only thing they can hope for with their lawsuit is that it makes a few others pay a little more attention.

Few people know they are being stupid at the actual time they are being stupid.
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Old 06-28-21, 10:14 AM
  #56  
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Just because people don't know they are being stupid, they are in fact being stupid.

Being negligent and causing injury and property damage may not be as bad as purposely trying to cause in incident, but it is still something that requires a response including the possibility of being pursued legally or financially for the damage that your negligence caused.
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Old 06-28-21, 10:22 AM
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The commentators on NBC said the charge was involuntary reckless endangerment, which sounds a lot like legalese for criminal stupidity
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Old 06-28-21, 10:47 AM
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those aiming to distinguish between "criminal" and "accident" are simply demonstrating that they don't know how the law works. The two are not exclusive. Look up the definitions of any number of crimes, from reckless endangerment to involuntary manslaughter, and you'll see that an accident caused by stupidity or negligence can still be a crime, in the absence of malevolent intent.
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Old 06-28-21, 11:31 AM
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Methinks several here have not attended a race before. She knew they were coming, she was waiting and ready. She was dying to get her sign on TV and was actively tracking the camera motorcycle. Point is she did not care about the riders, she was focused on her "selfie moment," the arrogant twit. Find her? Her name will come out. She didn't plan extensively, and surely several people know her and her story. People talk, they can't help it. At some point, she will face responsibility for her thoughtless act. Lack of malice does not free her from accountability.
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Old 06-28-21, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by tyrion
They should have one of the motorcycles ride about 20 seconds ahead of the leader, ringing a bell. A standardized, distinctive bell. The 20 second bell.
Must everything be adjusted for the short-attention-span ?
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Old 06-28-21, 12:22 PM
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Old 06-28-21, 12:56 PM
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She's making the rounds.




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Old 06-28-21, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
I remember watching a Vuelta three or four years ago that they did have police everywhere the fans were. They were pretty aggressive keeping the fans at bay. I even watched an official on a motorcycle just a ahead of the riders coming up a steep turn stiff arm a fan and send him into the ditch... Maybe they were too aggressive then and caught some flak for it. I haven't seen as much of that going on. Don't even see as many Spanish Police on the Vuelta's routes since that race. Maybe 2017 or 2018?
The 2017 Vuelta overlapped with the Catalonia independence crisis.
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Old 06-28-21, 01:00 PM
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Someone should paste her into this old Group B photo

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Old 06-28-21, 02:04 PM
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I find it odd that there are reports that the person has fled the country... yet nobody seems to know who it is.

If the woman resides within the EU, it is likely any extradition request will be complied with. Or fines and lawsuits could cross borders.
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Old 06-28-21, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion
I think luck was a factor. She was goofing off, showing off at the exact wrong time. Crossing the line at the exact wrong time. If she would have ended her dance/stunt 3 seconds earlier it wouldn't be an issue.
Couldn't disagree more. She put herself on the road when she knew damn well the peleton was coming. That's pretty obvious by that stupid grin on her face as she mugged for the camera! Luck played NO pard in this idiot's action. Riders assume risks when they enter the race, but fan stupidity is not part of that equation.
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Old 06-28-21, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge
Move anything attached to you onto the course within 10 seconds of a rider approaching and be fined.
Tell that to those on Dutch Corner, or any steep climb for that matter.
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Old 06-28-21, 02:13 PM
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Not sure why she has yet to be ID'ed. If she is eventually ID'ed and charged and/or sued in a civil case, the fact that she hasn't surfaced on her own will not play well in any legal proceeding.
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Old 06-28-21, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Riveting
Tell that to those on Dutch Corner, or any steep climb for that matter.
It is enforcing for a few seconds in places with many authorities already. I think this is a matter of choice, not capability.
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Old 06-28-21, 02:24 PM
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Not that I condone what she did, and just to be a Devil's advocate: she and her sign were standing there in a steady state long before the peloton got there. How was she supposed to know the peloton would be using 100% of the width of the road? Just watch any race, there's lots of fans stepping on the course's asphalt, this occasion just ended really poorly. If anything, could she sue the rider for being negligent and hitting her?

In general, what's the official ruling (at-fault and insurance-wise) when a racing cyclist hits and injures a spectator be it on the course's asphalt, or just inches off the course on the grass?
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Old 06-28-21, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Riveting
Not that I condone what she did, and just to be a Devil's advocate: she and her sign were standing there in a steady state long before the peloton got there. How was she supposed to know the peloton would be using 100% of the width of the road? Just watch any race, there's lots of fans stepping on the course's asphalt, this occasion just ended really poorly. If anything, could she sue the rider for being negligent and hitting her?

In general, what's the official ruling (at-fault and insurance-wise) when a racing cyclist hits and injures a spectator be it on the course's asphalt, or just inches off the course on the grass?
wut?
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Old 06-28-21, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
wut?
wut about what specifically? But to rephrase: she and her sign were standing still on the furthest edge of the asphalt, and a cyclist hit her. Who is at fault? Are we allowed to hit a pedestrian that's standing still on the fringes of the bike lane?

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Old 06-28-21, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Riveting
wut about what specifically? But to rephrase: she and her sign were standing still on the furthest edge of the asphalt, and a cyclist hit her. Who is at fault? Are we allowed to hit a pedestrian that's standing still on the fringes of the bike lane?
We are not talking an open road and the usual traffic. This was an event planned and permitted for and known to be happening at that moment for the past 6 months. The event was a bike race where every inch of pavement may well be used by cyclists going faster than 30 mph. Everybody knows this. That spectator had to plan her entire day (maybe week and maybe with months of planning) around getting to the roadside edge to be there at that moment. As the lead/camera motorcycle passed, she was holding the sign parallel to the road. After it passed, she swung it up-road to be televised world-wide by the TV camera on the motorcycle. Tony Martin saw the parallel sign and knew he was going to miss it. He had no idea she was going to swing it into his path.

To call this a vehicle-pedestrian "accident" is a joke.
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Old 06-28-21, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Riveting
Not that I condone what she did, and just to be a Devil's advocate: she and her sign were standing there in a steady state long before the peloton got there. How was she supposed to know the peloton would be using 100% of the width of the road? Just watch any race, there's lots of fans stepping on the course's asphalt, this occasion just ended really poorly. If anything, could she sue the rider for being negligent and hitting her?

In general, what's the official ruling (at-fault and insurance-wise) when a racing cyclist hits and injures a spectator be it on the course's asphalt, or just inches off the course on the grass?
We need a longer clip to confirm how long she had the sign out. Did she flip it out as soon as the motorcycle passed, or was she holding it for hours?

(notes seem to indicate that she did flip it up).

There wasn't any space to maneuver, and Tony Martin likely was concentrating on the road ahead, riders around him, pavement, etc. Does the TDF fix things like mailboxes intruding on the roadway?

This isn't NBA rules.

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Old 06-28-21, 05:12 PM
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I assume there are race marshals that will warn anybody sitting on the road with a lawn chair.

In this case, the woman wasn't an apparent danger until moments before the riders arrived.

Of course a poorly placed "official" motorcycle can also be dangerous as demonstrated by a Red Hook race a couple of years ago.
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