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France’s Most Wanted (Wo)Man

Old 06-28-21, 05:35 PM
  #76  
Doge
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Originally Posted by Riveting View Post
...How was she supposed to know ...
Same as everything else from auto racing to giving cyclist 3 feet. It is her business to know when she goes to the venue. How - is not something that needs to be determined.

I get it - a bunch of lawyers will argue both ways. It ultimately becomes a political discussion about being responsible for what you do, or given a pass because you didn't know, meant well etc. You can tell my leanings from above.
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Old 06-28-21, 05:39 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Riveting View Post
wut about what specifically? But to rephrase: she and her sign were standing still on the furthest edge of the asphalt, and a cyclist hit her. Who is at fault? Are we allowed to hit a pedestrian that's standing still on the fringes of the bike lane?
If you are racing and the road is closed and permitted - yes*. Just like if you cross the freeway cars are allowed to hit you. You are not to do that. How you know that is something you need to figure out.
*Allowed is a trick word - basically the person controlling doing the hitting of the person not supposed to be there will not be charged.
Do you know of anything different?
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Old 06-28-21, 05:44 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
It's not a crime, it's just a stupid mistake amplified by bad luck.
Different country have different standards. Accidents due to negligence can be crimes (the axe handle flying off), or at a minimum, you are responsible for paying for the damage and maybe some pain and suffering.
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Old 06-28-21, 08:55 PM
  #79  
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I think it's pretty obvious ASO and really all events promote fans approaching the route, except barricades at the finish and on the top of climbs. So for a racer, it's part of the job dealing with it. By the same token, riders often hop on the sidewalk / gutters especially on the pave sections. There clearly can be an edge coming up the outside but it also has its risks. I have more dislike of the crazy moto and vehicle drivers, who are supposed to be licensed.

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Old 06-28-21, 09:01 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Riveting View Post
wut about what specifically? But to rephrase: she and her sign were standing still on the furthest edge of the asphalt, and a cyclist hit her. Who is at fault? Are we allowed to hit a pedestrian that's standing still on the fringes of the bike lane?
How many hours of professional bike racing have you watched, total?
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Old 06-28-21, 09:16 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Riveting View Post
How was she supposed to know?
Perhaps watch the race like all the other spectators near her. Rather than shoving her sign into the middle of the road and smiling for the motorcycle camera.
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Old 06-28-21, 10:47 PM
  #82  
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I believe they plan to take legal action against her.

This should make other spectators think before they do stupid things.
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Old 06-29-21, 06:57 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Riveting View Post
How was she supposed to know the peloton would be using 100% of the width of the road?
Uh, by paying attention? I know it's called "paying" attention, but it's actually free!
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Old 06-29-21, 07:09 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Different country have different standards. Accidents due to negligence can be crimes (the axe handle flying off), or at a minimum, you are responsible for paying for the damage and maybe some pain and suffering.
I found this in an article in the Guardian:The French media suggested that, if found guilty of an offence, the culprit could be subjected to a custodial sentence.

“According to article 222-20 of the penal code, the spectator would risk a maximum penalty of one year of imprisonment as well as a fine of 15,000 euros,” stated L’Equipe.
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Old 06-29-21, 07:23 AM
  #85  
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There is almost as much culpable stupidity going on in this thread as there was on the road.

Don't fire warning shots. Leave warning bodies. ASO find her and sue in a civil proceeding, with extreme prejudice. Even if it is a loss leader. For the precedent.

Whether it is criminal or not is for the gendarmerie to weigh in on. I hope they do.

Stop over-reacting to bottles. Stop under-reacting to fan assaults.
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Old 06-29-21, 09:27 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Riveting View Post
Not that I condone what she did, and just to be a Devil's advocate: she and her sign were standing there in a steady state long before the peloton got there. How was she supposed to know the peloton would be using 100% of the width of the road? Just watch any race, there's lots of fans stepping on the course's asphalt, this occasion just ended really poorly. If anything, could she sue the rider for being negligent and hitting her?

In general, what's the official ruling (at-fault and insurance-wise) when a racing cyclist hits and injures a spectator be it on the course's asphalt, or just inches off the course on the grass?
Tony Martin said she swung out seconds before the collision.

As for suing Tony Martin, Jumbo Visma, et al, yes she can do that, but let's be real here. Regardless of the merit of such a claim (there is none), her sign was written poorly on janky corrugated cardboard. Her broke ass can't afford a lawyer and I find it unlikely that any good lawyer would take that case on contingency.

In all likelihood, she probably won't even be able to afford a defense lawyer and will succumb to a default judgment.
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Old 06-29-21, 09:34 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I found this in an article in the Guardian:The French media suggested that, if found guilty of an offence, the culprit could be subjected to a custodial sentence.

“According to article 222-20 of the penal code, the spectator would risk a maximum penalty of one year of imprisonment as well as a fine of 15,000 euros,” stated L’Equipe.
This is for a criminal case.

However, I think Tour organizers and maybe a host of other plaintiffs, including teams and individual riders, will be independently suing this person in civil court. Considering the circumstances, they probably won't recover any money, but it sets precedent.

As for the individual, she'll have to deal with the stress of having to unsuccessfully defend a lawsuit and possibly file bankruptcy in the end (dunno what bankruptcy laws are like in the EU, but they can't be that far off). She probably doesn't have any assets anyway, but they might take her stash of cardboard and yellow raincoats.

They could also garnish her wages in the future, but I don't know how much she gets paid as a village idiot.

Last edited by colombo357; 06-29-21 at 09:39 AM.
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Old 06-29-21, 09:41 AM
  #88  
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I am going to be disappointed if this thread doesn't hit at least 10 pages.
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Old 06-29-21, 09:41 AM
  #89  
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All this assumes that she will be identified. As she has yet to be, the odds are diminishing.
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Old 06-29-21, 09:51 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
All this assumes that she will be identified. As she has yet to be, the odds are diminishing.
Between the media attention (this is after all one of the biggest regular sporting events on this planet) and all the social media we have now, the odds she is not recognized by more than several is remote. Eventually, someone's going to talk. (For reference, observe the silence around the Jan 6 participants. Several hundred have been identified.)
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Old 06-29-21, 12:38 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
(For reference, observe the silence around the Jan 6 participants. Several hundred have been identified.)
Yep, it there is a will, also a motivated public participation...

In this particular setting, all spectators should have been standing behind that small ditch. I would think that spectator supervision should be (or maybe is) a responsibility for the local race organizing township through which the races passes (if they don't manage it properly, they could be sued). Same as they are responsible for local road closures and markings and all that comes with the racing passing through your town.

You don't get people like this around roads outside towns (where it can be regulated by local forces), except in those big hills but there the peloton is naturally spread out and going much slower.

I don't see much difference between a bike race or auto rally where for the latter it is a responsibility of each township to mark off the areas with those yellow tapes where spectators should not be standing and are required to police the area to insure compliance. Though it took a number of dead spectators before such rules were put in place (but that is different country from country).
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Old 06-29-21, 04:16 PM
  #92  
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Not much to say that hasn't been said. I was watching live feed, and the confusion was crazy at first, then the video feed from the lead camera motorcycle came in. If you haven't seen a clear example that starts a couple of seconds before, try to find one. When she saw the camera pointing in her direction, without looking at the peloton right behind her, she leaned into the road, raised her arm straight out, holding the far end of the sign and in the process clotheslined Tony Martin. He had no time-or room to do anything.
In another cycling group, some troll was saying that it was 'just a piece of cardboard and he'd run into branches on his mountain bike and not fallen off," He had his ass handed to him.
I understand she showed presence of mind after, shedding the yellow coat and disappearing into the crowd. I would've been a completely horrified mess. But then, I learned along time ago, never put your back to a race, whether it be foot, bike, or auto.
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Old 06-29-21, 04:39 PM
  #93  
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Unfortunately with the selfie generation, mugging for the camera is not some one-off behavior. I've seen plenty of close calls on televised races where the spectator gets tunnel vision and is oblivious to riders coming up. More with flags than signs though. As far as Didi and other cosplay types, it does add some "color" but prompts more idiocy, like wearing horned viking hats.

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Old 06-30-21, 07:04 AM
  #94  
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Phil just announced on the live broadcast that she has been arrested and is in custody.
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Old 06-30-21, 07:32 AM
  #95  
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The person is accused of involuntarily causing injury and faces a fine of 1,500 euros.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pol...-france-crash/

Seems like a slap on the wrist, so to speak.

I suppose that this is separate from the civil action initiated by ASO?
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Old 06-30-21, 07:35 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pol...-france-crash/

Seems like a slap on the wrist, so to speak.

I suppose that this is separate from the civil action initiated by ASO?
And any individual actions any of the affected riders might pursue. These could all add up.
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Old 06-30-21, 09:01 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by KJ43 View Post
And any individual actions any of the affected riders might pursue. These could all add up.
It won't add up because she's likely judgment proof, from a financial standpoint. But it will, hopefully, send a message to other careless fans. I hope it also sends a message to the Tour. I didn't realize that just before the riders arrive, cars ahead toss of Swag, etc. to rile up the crowds. Of course, without excited, engaged fans, there is no professional cycling for long, but it seems like between those pep cars and the racers, they should have a police car/motorcycle or two clearly announcing that fans need to keep a distance from the road for safety reasons. I was surprised to learn that doesn't already happen. That isn't a perfect solution, but might cause most people to think a bit harder about where they're standing.
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Old 06-30-21, 10:07 AM
  #98  
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I can't find anything online about who it is and what is happening to her
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Old 06-30-21, 10:33 AM
  #99  
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https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pol...-france-crash/
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Old 06-30-21, 10:57 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by goose70 View Post
It won't add up because she's likely judgment proof, from a financial standpoint. But it will, hopefully, send a message to other careless fans. I hope it also sends a message to the Tour. I didn't realize that just before the riders arrive, cars ahead toss of Swag, etc. to rile up the crowds. Of course, without excited, engaged fans, there is no professional cycling for long, but it seems like between those pep cars and the racers, they should have a police car/motorcycle or two clearly announcing that fans need to keep a distance from the road for safety reasons. I was surprised to learn that doesn't already happen. That isn't a perfect solution, but might cause most people to think a bit harder about where they're standing.
Eh, we'll see what happens if this does in fact end up in the courts. Aside from any judgements or legal financial penalties, there is the cost of representation on what could be multiple civil suits or whatever potentially gets thrown her way. There is the time and stress involved in dealing with that, the stress from being pretty much infamous around the world once her name gets out there, etc.

So I still feel that things will add up, maybe not in the sense of multiple fines or judgements against her, but in the end it could be quite a spanking from all the rest of the fallout from her negligence. Time will tell though.
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