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Vino! Vino! Vino!

Old 07-25-05, 12:45 PM
  #26  
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Watching Vinokourov, especially the last 2 days of the race, was spectacular! He rode a superb TT and attacked for all he was worth on the streets of Paris. Whining about what he "did" to Levi is ridiculous -- Levi didn't have a chance of keeping his position on GC. As we all saw, Vino rode away from several members of the Gerolsteiner team in the sprint and rode away from Davitamon-Lotto for the stage win...and I'm willing to bet that both Lotto and Cofidis wanted that win pretty badly in their attempt to oust Hushovd.

In other words, the result would have been the same regardless of the time bonus announcement's ambiguity. Gerolsteiner was no match for Vinokourov's attack for the same reason Lotto and Cofidis were powerless to defend their sprinters -- Vinokourov was motivated and stronger.

Vinokourov well deserves his 5th place and I hope he continues to brandish his racing enthusiam and moxie. I believe that if he were to temper some of his fire with a bit of patience and tactical shrewdness, he would likely be an even more formidable racer.
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Old 07-25-05, 01:08 PM
  #27  
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Vinokourov earned the position. while my american pride would have rather seen levi in the top 5, vino out rode him and siezed the moment and I for one cant blame him. This is a guy who is also trying to establish his worth on another team and gaining that 1 position put almost $30,000 extra into that manly turqoise suit he has, does anyone now why he isn't in t-mobile pink?
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Old 07-25-05, 01:40 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by 531Aussie
why was Vino wearing those colours?
Those are the colors of the national champion of Kasachstan, Vino's home country.
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Old 07-25-05, 01:45 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Marge
gosh the guy is a frigging crybaby that quit his Team 5 days before the end!!!!
Couldn't he have waited??? good riddance to bad rubbish!!!!!!
It's quite common for teams to announce movement (trades etc.) during the Tour.
Evidence USPS, Floyd Landis last year, and Roberto Heras the year before.
I'm quite sure that both Vino and T-Mobile were well aware that his contract
was up at the end of this year prior to the start of the tour. All he did was
confirm he was not going to renew with t-mobile. Given their lack of support
for any one rider (in both GC and Points, no Zabel) they got no more than
they deserved.
Crybaby? I think not. Vino is one of the hard men of the sport
Cudo's to him for a brilliant attack on the Champs. . .

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Old 07-25-05, 02:42 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by koffee brown
I simply don't know what team would take him on. Obviously, he's a strong cyclist and very ambitious, but what team would take him on, especially if other teams see him as a pariah and won't work with the team he's on, I don't know. Good luck to him, though. I'm eager to see how his next year shapes up (I don't think he'll ever be on Discovery).

Koffee
Vino will have no trouble finding a home. Not on one of the A-list teams (Discovery, CSC, etc.) but say you’re not the DS but a major sponsor of a team that won no stages, wasn’t a sprint contender… in other words, the team is getting very little press. Wouldn’t you, as a sponsor, love to sign the rider whose press coverage is second only to LA?

Don’t forget that these pro athletes are entertainers whose job is to draw attention to the sponsor. They do it by winning and of course winning the GC is the ultimate. But what about the sponsors whose teams are currently below the radar?
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Old 07-25-05, 03:49 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by koffee brown
Though I do like Vino, I do believe that the etiquettte of the Tour is to never attack on the last day. Sprinters get to vie for the final stage win and bonus points. I was surprised (well, not really, knowing Vino's tactics) to see Vino break out of the pack in the last stage and go for it, but oh well... I feel bad for Levi, but I like Vino, and it was nice to see him on the podium again.

The final day's attach moved Vino from 5th to 4th in the final sprinter standings. If etiquette limitted attachs to those vying for the sprints, Vino, as sprint contender, would still be politically correct in going for sprinter points and position.


Originally Posted by koffee brown
I simply don't know what team would take him on. Obviously, he's a strong cyclist and very ambitious, but what team would take him on, especially if other teams see him as a pariah and won't work with the team he's on, I don't know. Good luck to him, though. I'm eager to see how his next year shapes up (I don't think he'll ever be on Discovery).

Koffee
His go for broke attitude would be popular with an American team. I expect him with Discovery and we already know he'll be offered a position with CredAg. Then we can ponder why Vino's Jersey is a different color than the rest of the Discovery riders.
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Old 07-25-05, 03:51 PM
  #32  
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I agree with plin on etiquette--long breakaways before the Champs-Elysses are frowned upon, but it's perfectly fine to go after intermediate sprints and to attack once on the Paris circuit. Every year there's usually a small group that gets away for a few laps on the Champs-Elysses (Merckx and Voeckler were in a big group last year), but they're usually caught before the end.

Great win by Vino! And that was some ride to fend off the whole Gerolsteiner team at the first sprint point. I'm not ready to annoint him as some kind of tactical genius (as Phil and Paul constantly proclaim), but the boy is definitely fun to watch.

The latest rumor I saw on Velonews had Vino going to Credit Agricole, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because he'll just be trapped in another team with split loyalties as long as Hushovd is there. Vino says it should be settled in the next two weeks or so, though.
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Old 07-25-05, 04:13 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by koffee brown
I don't think so. Either the entire cycling community misunderstood or just you and Vino, because I understood the announcement to mean that after the first finish line pass, there would be no more time bonuses awarded, but that POINTS for the green jersey would still be available. That's why (it seemed) that all the guys who were top contenders sat towards the back of the pack- avoiding the eventual madness that develops when the sprinters are fighting it out for the green jersey points.

Koffee
The anouncement to drop the time bonus for the second intermediate sprint never mentioned dropping the final time bonus.

Excerpts from the official site live update play by play:

16:00: "Vino Wins The Sprint!"

16:16 - Leipheimer Still Leads Vinokourov
Although Vinokourov (TMO) gained a two-second time bonus at the first sprint, Leipheimer (GST) is still fifth overall. They are separated by a fraction of a second but the count-back from the two time trials is in favour of the American.

16:19: "Time For General Classifcation Will Be Taken On First Lap. The peloton will still complete the eight laps of the Champs Elysees circuit but that is just to determine the stage winner"

16:29: "The race jury has just announced that there will not be any time bonuses awarded for the 2nd intermediate sprint; only points.
This is a modification to the normal rule."

17:26 "Vino Wins The Stage!
Vinokourov has won his second stage this year! He will earn time bonuses for the victory and move up to fifth overall...!"
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Old 07-25-05, 09:47 PM
  #34  
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I'm surprised Vino didn't get most aggressive rider. Did Pierrero(sorry about the spelling) really do more than Vino? Every stage it seemed at some point the experpts said "Vino attacks!"

And just to add fuel to the fire, why did he wear the team colors on the time-trial? UCI only requires national champ colors on road stages? I thought that was odd.
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Old 07-25-05, 09:53 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by DogBoy
I'm surprised Vino didn't get most aggressive rider. Did Pierrero(sorry about the spelling) really do more than Vino? Every stage it seemed at some point the experpts said "Vino attacks!"

And just to add fuel to the fire, why did he wear the team colors on the time-trial? UCI only requires national champ colors on road stages? I thought that was odd.
Pereiro attacked 3 consequetive days, if I am right, and won 1 and came 2nd in one...
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Old 07-25-05, 10:08 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Rincewind8
Those are the colors of the national champion of Kasachstan, Vino's home country.
ah...WHAT???!!!

thanks
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Old 07-25-05, 10:45 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by DogBoy
And just to add fuel to the fire, why did he wear the team colors on the time-trial? UCI only requires national champ colors on road stages? I thought that was odd.
Not sure if you're serious or not. He's the road race champion of his country. Not the TT champ.
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Old 07-25-05, 11:34 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by skinnyone
Pereiro attacked 3 consequetive days, if I am right, and won 1 and came 2nd in one...
I think you are referring to stages 15 (2nd), 16 (1st), and 19 (4th).
There was also a rest day between 15 & 16.
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Old 07-26-05, 10:23 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Laggard
Not sure if you're serious or not. He's the road race champion of his country. Not the TT champ.
Unfortunately I am serious. I don't know all the jersey rules. I thought I saw TT Champs wearing the TT jerseys in stage races on the Giro so I was surprised to see Vino NOT wearing his road racing champ jersey on the TT. So the rule is you must wear the champ jersey only in the discipline in which it was earned, not all cycling events? Sorry for my ignorance.

As to the other topic, I still think Vinos constant attacks should have deserved some credit. I guess we don't know how close the vote was or who were the contneders, but I'll bet it was a close vote and Vino was second. On the other hand, the Phil and Paul comments about Vino "annoying" other riders (Lance and Levi) makes me think maybe other riders don't like him so much. Hard to know.
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Old 07-26-05, 10:58 AM
  #40  
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Just read the He's going with Liberty next year... That ought to be interesting...
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Old 07-26-05, 10:59 AM
  #41  
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sorry... Link: https://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news;_ylc...ters&type=lgns
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Old 07-26-05, 11:38 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by sh_wn
Just read the He's going with Liberty next year... That ought to be interesting...
Hmmm... I wonder what colors he will wear?
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Old 07-26-05, 01:36 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by BeeTL
What I HAVEN'T seen answered is why he wore proper T-Mobile team colors on the ITT day? Did I imagine seeing that? Is there some exception to the whole National Champion rule when you're riding alone?
Road race champions can only wear their countries jersey during road stages. TT champions can only wear their countries jersey during time trials.

Dmitriy Muravyev of CA is the TT champ of Kazakhstan.

Last edited by Laggard; 07-26-05 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 07-26-05, 01:54 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by sh_wn
Just read the He's going with Liberty next year... That ought to be interesting...
That is interesting and also seems to be a good move for all involved.
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Old 07-27-05, 09:50 AM
  #45  
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Especially Heras. He can now rid himself of the pressure of being the team's tour CG contender and concentrate on the Vuelta instead.
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