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BBC: Armstrong Not the Greatest

Old 07-25-05, 04:34 PM
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BBC: Armstrong Not the Greatest

says former tour riders
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Old 07-25-05, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by linux_author
and they're right. the end.
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Old 07-25-05, 04:47 PM
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"Hope...is...gone... "

Merlin, when the sword Excalibur was broken because of King Arthur's pride in the movie, "Excalibur".

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Old 07-25-05, 05:34 PM
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Same thing happened when Carroll Shelby and Ford MotorSPort entered racing in Europe during the 1960s. Same accusations of unfairness, lack of tradition, cockiness, factory advantages yada, yada, yada.

At about the the fifth year of their dominance, Ford again took the first three podium places at Lemans well ahead of the next Euro team.

Today, all of the motorsports teams are run in the same fashion. None of the would have been competitive otherwise.

Lance revolutionized the approach to factory supported sponsored stage racing. It will take a few years before the other teams catch up. Until then, they'll always compare themselves to Lance.

Would I compare Juan Fangio to Micheal Schumacher? Nope--Different kind of racing.
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Old 07-25-05, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by squeegy200
Same thing happened when Carroll Shelby and Ford MotorSPort entered racing in Europe during the 1960s.
+2 insightful!

tks from a grateful n00b!
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Old 07-25-05, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by squeegy200
Would I compare Juan Fangio to Micheal Schumacher? Nope--Different kind of racing.
I agree completely. For many many years the tour riders rode fixed gear bikes. Then technological advances allowed for multi-speed bikes. Thia allowed for bigger and higher mountain stages. And so on and so forth. . .

People who jump to say that Armstrong is not one of the greatest are like F-1 fans saying Schumacher is no Fangio. They are both the greatest in their own time. . .
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Old 07-25-05, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by linux_author
True.
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Old 07-25-05, 09:18 PM
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Ol Bernie Hino wouldnt be up to any sour grapes would he??

The fact is we'll never know how Lance would have stacked up against Hinault, Merck, Indurain or the rest because they come from different generations but we do know that Lance won seven TDF two more than any of theothers and all in faster times than were ridden before...So its hard to say that he is not the greatest TDF rider.. Which in itself will rank him amongst the very top cycling greats forever..
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Old 07-25-05, 09:24 PM
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I think he is the best TDF rider, but overall rider I think goes to EM, and I thought I heard LA say the same thing once. This is a discussion for the sake of argument. There can never be a resolution.
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Old 07-26-05, 12:38 AM
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No cyclist before Lance ever focused on the Tour to the extent that Lance has. So yes, Lance is the greatest TdF rider ever; his record speaks for itself. That, by itself, doesn't make him the greatest bike racer ever.
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Old 07-26-05, 01:38 AM
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I'm "workshopping" some analogies to use on my non-cycling mates

How's this one?

"imagine if a tennis player only turned up to Wimbledon, and NEVER won any other tournament"

any good?
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Old 07-26-05, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben Cousins
I thought of that exact analogy the other day. It's exactly right.
Hmmmm...I guess having been the youngest world road champion EVER, does not count.

One other point...all the other guys were totally healthy in their lives. Eddy, Bernie, Miguel, were never told they had a 20% chance to live. Not to race. To live. Just do the chemo and we will see if you can live. Race? Ha!! The Tour? You are joking, right?

He beat the p!ss out of the best cyclists in the world in the toughtest sporting event in the world, after going through multiple rounds of the worst type of chemotherapy there is.

I've seen three people go through chemo.

It is the ugliest thing ever.

And I saw Eddy win the Tour. And lose the Tour. In person.
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Old 07-26-05, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by 531Aussie
I'm "workshopping" some analogies to use on my non-cycling mates

How's this one?

"imagine if a tennis player only turned up to Wimbledon, and NEVER won any other tournament"

any good?
I was unaware that Armstrong had never won any other race. Thanks for those facts.

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Old 07-26-05, 06:20 AM
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That was a great movie.
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Old 07-26-05, 06:25 AM
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One other point...all the other guys were totally healthy in their lives.
wasnt eddy in a car accident and suffered from severe back pains for part of his career?
i don't see how you can compare people who rode 2 completely different careers. Eddy did all kinds of cycling, tours, one day classics, track, hour record. and raced a full season. and could seemingly win whenever he felt like it. add to that taking all 3 jerseys in the tour, i'm not sure that would even be possible today. i don't think Eddy even raced every tour during his career and still has 5 wins. he also has signifigintly more yellow jerseys with 2 fewer wins than Lance.

maybe Lance could have done all that stuff too, but he didn't. the only thing you can compare is number of tour wins, and Lance has more.
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Old 07-26-05, 06:34 AM
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Almost a 'no s**t sherlock' article.
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Old 07-26-05, 07:40 AM
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Why does this topic keep emerging? Why does anyone even care? Lance is Lance and he did what he did. So what if he concentrated on the Tour, anyone else could have, but did not. So instead we get mass media and individuals alike that bash him for it. He did something that has never been done, and will probably never happen in my lifetime again.
The fact that he cameback froma debilatating illness and was sucessful so fast is mind boggling enough. So cut him some slack.
How would he stack up to Merck, or Indurain? Who cares!! How does Schumacher stack up to Mario? Mario won alot of races in alot of different cars. Is Mario the greatest driver ever? Is John Force the greatest drag racer ever? Who cares!!
Lets just give Lance and others the respect they deserve and move on.
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Old 07-26-05, 07:45 AM
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Stop the MADNESS!!

You cant compare different generations. Merckx is the greatest rider ever and Lance is the greatest TdF rider. Why cant we all just let well enough alone.
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Old 07-26-05, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by shaharidan
wasnt eddy in a car accident and suffered from severe back pains for part of his career?
It was a track accident. Yes, he had chronic back pain that limited his riding and ultimately lead to an early retirement.
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Old 07-26-05, 09:54 AM
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if Venus Williams played against Chuck Conners
(he of the rifle serve) only while on a grass court at womblesdon
would eric heiden still outskate Babe Ono Ruth. . . .

got it?
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Old 07-26-05, 10:54 AM
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Does a catholic bear with one leg and a pope in the woods circle with a sh1t duck?
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Old 07-26-05, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben Cousins
You know, you could. In his last year as a pro, Lance could have ridden a replica bike from the Merckx era, used the same training and diet regime as him, and ridden the same calendar as him. That way, we could compare them.

I saw this last night on "The Science of Lance." Apparantly the new Trek Madones are so aerodynamic that they can actually go back in time. So Lance can spend an entire season racing with Eddie, Indurain, and Hinault, and we will all have our answer.
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Old 07-26-05, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 531Aussie
Does a catholic bear with one leg and a pope in the woods circle with a sh1t duck?
exactly.

(oh and the answer is contrary to popular belief not 42 but
always)
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Old 07-26-05, 12:01 PM
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Last edited by 531Aussie; 07-26-05 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 07-26-05, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rjkresse
I saw this last night on "The Science of Lance." Apparantly the new Trek Madones are so aerodynamic that they can actually go back in time. So Lance can spend an entire season racing with Eddie, Indurain, and Hinault, and we will all have our answer.
notice they "forgot" to mention the failed $250,000 'narrow' time trial bike?

According to one of the latest Armstrong books, they built a very narrow bike with a narrow bottom bracket, which was supposed to cut down a certain amount of drag, but this was countered by him not being able to produce as much power.
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