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Cobbles in Tour de France .... Stupid

Old 04-26-22, 06:36 PM
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Cobbles in Tour de France .... Stupid

Just too risky. Too many crashes without cobbles.
Save cobbles for 1 day races.
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Old 04-27-22, 05:07 AM
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Mmm mmm, no more cruising wheels to glory. Stay at the front or say a little prayer before the sector.

Bitter sweet to say considering Uran lost his chance in 2018 thanks to the cobbles
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Old 04-27-22, 09:20 AM
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Bring them on! Remember the Tour is meant to be won by the best "all around" rider, not the best climber, time trialist, or one day specialist. There is a technique for riding the cobbles as well as descending Cols at 70kph. May the best rider win!
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Old 04-27-22, 10:13 AM
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I tend to agree with banana jam 's sentiment. Though I'm not sure about what type rider is intended to win the TdF.

I do like that they are trying to add things to make interesting and possibly might change up the standings so we don't just see a rider getting a few minutes on everyone else during the first few stages and then it be the boring but effective team strategy that keeps them the GC leader for the rest of the tour.

But I'd also agree they don't need to get excessive with the cobbles, even if just for that one day.
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Old 04-27-22, 10:22 AM
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i'll take cobbles on wet and narrow roads vs a sharp turn in the last 3 kms or inconveniently-angled rail tracks anytime.
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Old 04-27-22, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
Just too risky. Too many crashes without cobbles.
Save cobbles for 1 day races.
Bike racing is too risky. We should all follow track and field instead.
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Old 04-27-22, 02:12 PM
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Nerf cobbles?
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Old 04-27-22, 04:56 PM
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Let's have the tdf be on a velodrome only. Or is that too risky? Or no, on stationary bikes. Too risky again?
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Old 04-27-22, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ooga-booga View Post
i'll take cobbles on wet and narrow roads vs a sharp turn in the last 3 kms or inconveniently-angled rail tracks anytime.
Yeah this all day. You can reclaim a ton of time in the mountains if you do poorly on cobbles.

I have fond memories of the 2018 tour, van Avermaet held the yellow jersey for the first stages and into stage 9(right?). First cobbled sector had an epic moto camera shot as van Avermaet led the peloton onto the sector. So boss. I looked around but couldn't find any video of it!

Degenkalb won the stage, super emotional after going 2nd to Sagan in the spring at roubaix and having lost his teammate a year prior?

Porte crashed out after hitting pot hole while taking a drink from a bottle, before the first sector! More injuries from road furniture and scummy roads then cobbles.

In the year 2525 they'll be hooked up to ultra-xwift (letter 'Z' deemed ultra taboo after the nuclear strikes) and use their minds!
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Old 04-28-22, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by semroc View Post
Let's have the tdf be on a velodrome only. Or is that too risky? Or no, on stationary bikes. Too risky again?
ummm ... i'm supremely talented. i've fallen off of my stationary bike SEVERAL times!
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Old 04-29-22, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by slcbob View Post
Nerf cobbles?

that sounds amazing right nowww....
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Old 04-29-22, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by banana jam View Post
Bring them on! Remember the Tour is meant to be won by the best "all around" rider, not the best climber, time trialist, or one day specialist. There is a technique for riding the cobbles as well as descending Cols at 70kph. May the best rider win!
I enjoy watching races on the cobbles just as much of many here. But I do disagree with the sentiment that the TdF is meant to be won by the best all-around rider. Although I wonít say that having some cobbles is a stupid idea. If an all-around winner was the aim of the TdF, wouldnít they also have stages of mountain bike racing, cyclo-cross, velodrome/track, and other disciplines of bicycle racing? Granted, in the early days of the TdF, some portions of the race were raced on gravel/dirt roads, and probably some cobble section. I think thatís just because the roads werenít paved with asphalt yet. But otherwise it has always been a road race. At least thatís what it has evolved into. I think a multi-discipline tour would be cool. But currently, if itís a road race, keep it a road race and leave the cobbles out of it.

Dan

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Old 04-29-22, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by _ForceD_ View Post
I enjoy watching races on the cobbles just as much of many here. But I do disagree with the sentiment that the TdF is meant to be won by the best all-around rider. Although I won’t say that having some cobbles is a stupid idea. If an all-around winner was the aim of the TdF, wouldn’t they also have stages of mountain bike racing, cyclo-cross, velodrome/track, and other disciplines of bicycle racing? Granted, in the early days of the TdF, some portions of the race were raced on gravel/dirt roads, and probably some cobble section. I think that’s just because the roads weren’t paved with asphalt yet. But otherwise it has always been a road race. At least that’s what it has evolved into. I think a multi-discipline tour would be cool. But currently, if it’s a road race, keep it a road race and leave the cobbles out of it.

Dan
I'm pretty certain that being a road cyclist was a given in the post that you quoted.

Also, I disagree with the Author. A stage or two with some cobbled sectors helps generate interest in the stage(s) and also has the potential to open the door of opportunity to riders who aren't in the tight circle of "usual suspects" - even if it means only a stage podium or wearing a leader's jersey for a day or two. As to the "safety" concern... anyone who has watched a few Tours can tell you the entire first week is full of safety concerns - no matter the character of the stages.
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Old 04-30-22, 11:04 PM
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I think current Grand Tour races should be on smooth pavement.

I get gravel, cobbles, CX etc. I see them as different types of events. The types that TdF winners might avoid all together.
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Old 05-01-22, 01:26 AM
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cobbles or road furniture? flash poll!
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Old 05-01-22, 08:00 AM
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Cobbles add too much of an element of chance.

TdF or any Grand Tour should reward the best rider overall, not a good rider who was lucky.
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Old 05-01-22, 11:28 AM
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Since there was no link in the OP, what kind of "cobbles" are we talking, anyway? True cobblestones? Pave? Old brick roads?

I would agree that sending the TdF peloton down the Arenberg Trench would be excessive, but experienced riders should be able to handle a little roughness.
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Old 05-01-22, 12:13 PM
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It is true pave near the Belgium border. I think it is the same route that Froome crashed on.
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Old 05-01-22, 01:13 PM
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The TDF is arguably the most prestigious event in cycling. The winner should be able to prove him/her self on all types of road surfaces. These are highly paid professionals. Establishing routes for this race is very complicated and there are a lot of variables and logistics to consider. Smooth road racing with an emphasis on climbing or TT makes a not very interesting race. Think Nibali when you consider this years route. And other disciplines of cycling have their WC; however noting the crossovers recently, being strong is exactly that, no matter what machine you are on. Vive Le Tour!
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Old 05-05-22, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
It is true pave near the Belgium border. I think it is the same route that Froome crashed on.
The year that Froome crashed on the cobbled stage his crashes happened before they reached the cobbled sections. Interestingly Nibali schooled all the other GC riders as well as almost all the classics specialists and finished third on the stage
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Old 05-05-22, 08:17 AM
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Cobbled pave in Europe's cycling mecca's are entwined in the history and romance of road racing there. It is part of cycling culture for anyone who has ridden in France, Belgium etc. I'll be tackling a few iconic cobbled roads myself next week; the Koppenberg being one, when visiting my wife's family in Belgium.

Sure, some of the one-day Classics are far more focussed upon cobbled sections but Le Tour is representative of Professional racing in France, it therefore should - must - be reflective of the country, cycling history and infrastructure. If cobbles were to not feature at all, by rule, then this must come from a joint debate and subsequent vote between the cyclists themselves and the Organisers.

The TDF is considered the premier cycling road event in the World, it attracts the very best teams, the very best riders. Each and every one of them can ride cobbles - how much risk they take when doing so will vary but that is no different to all other aspects such as descents etc.


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Old 05-05-22, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by banana jam View Post
Bring them on! Remember the Tour is meant to be won by the best "all around" rider, not the best climber, time trialist, or one day specialist. There is a technique for riding the cobbles as well as descending Cols at 70kph. May the best rider win!
This. The "Tour of France" should include one of the iconic parts of French cycling.
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Old 05-05-22, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Cobbles add too much of an element of chance.

TdF or any Grand Tour should reward the best rider overall, not a good rider who was lucky.
That's the fallacy. Cobbles don't favor a good rider who was lucky. They reward a great rider who delivers and punish those who take it easy. Sure, there's some chance on the margins, but it's amazing how much skill and effort can mitigate the impact of luck, if not eliminate it. Race to the entry point, stay at the front, power through, and it's amazing how you're rewarded. Don't do that and roll the dice. The cobbles raise the stakes on both ends of that, and they alter the kind of rider who is best prepared to step up.

Cross-winds do the same thing. Should we stay off drafty parcours? How dare they ride through the Camargue? !!
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Old 05-05-22, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by slcbob View Post
That's the fallacy. Cobbles don't favor a good rider who was lucky. They reward a great rider who delivers and punish those who take it easy. Sure, there's some chance on the margins, but it's amazing how much skill and effort can mitigate the impact of luck, if not eliminate it. Race to the entry point, stay at the front, power through, and it's amazing how you're rewarded. Don't do that and roll the dice. The cobbles raise the stakes on both ends of that, and they alter the kind of rider who is best prepared to step up.

Cross-winds do the same thing. Should we stay off drafty parcours? How dare they ride through the Camargue? !!
I have watched Paris Roubaix several times in person. In my opinion, it is a crap shoot that does not belong in a big tour. It is not a fallacy, it is my opinion that cobbles add an excessive element of chance.
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Old 05-05-22, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
The year that Froome crashed on the cobbled stage his crashes happened before they reached the cobbled sections. Interestingly Nibali schooled all the other GC riders as well as almost all the classics specialists and finished third on the stage
So, I was right? Same route? (I did not say Froome crashed on the cobbles.)
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