Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Professional Cycling For the Fans
Reload this Page >

Cobbles in Tour de France .... Stupid

Notices
Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

Cobbles in Tour de France .... Stupid

Old 04-26-22, 06:36 PM
  #1  
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,819

Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1170 Post(s)
Liked 879 Times in 581 Posts
Cobbles in Tour de France .... Stupid

Just too risky. Too many crashes without cobbles.
Save cobbles for 1 day races.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.

FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html

Last edited by Homebrew01; 04-26-22 at 07:39 PM.
Homebrew01 is offline  
Likes For Homebrew01:
Old 04-27-22, 05:07 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
GrainBrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Central Io-way
Posts: 2,627

Bikes: LeMond Zurich, Giant Talon 29er

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1199 Post(s)
Liked 588 Times in 443 Posts
Mmm mmm, no more cruising wheels to glory. Stay at the front or say a little prayer before the sector.

Bitter sweet to say considering Uran lost his chance in 2018 thanks to the cobbles
GrainBrain is offline  
Old 04-27-22, 09:20 AM
  #3  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 82
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 46 Times in 24 Posts
Bring them on! Remember the Tour is meant to be won by the best "all around" rider, not the best climber, time trialist, or one day specialist. There is a technique for riding the cobbles as well as descending Cols at 70kph. May the best rider win!
banana jam is offline  
Old 04-27-22, 10:13 AM
  #4  
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,160

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5842 Post(s)
Liked 4,466 Times in 3,078 Posts
I tend to agree with banana jam 's sentiment. Though I'm not sure about what type rider is intended to win the TdF.

I do like that they are trying to add things to make interesting and possibly might change up the standings so we don't just see a rider getting a few minutes on everyone else during the first few stages and then it be the boring but effective team strategy that keeps them the GC leader for the rest of the tour.

But I'd also agree they don't need to get excessive with the cobbles, even if just for that one day.
Iride01 is online now  
Old 04-27-22, 10:22 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
diphthong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: insane diego, california
Posts: 8,197

Bikes: 85 pinarello treviso steel, 88 nishiki olympic steel. 95 look kg 131 carbon, 11 trek madone 5.2 carbon

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1591 Post(s)
Liked 2,988 Times in 1,624 Posts
i'll take cobbles on wet and narrow roads vs a sharp turn in the last 3 kms or inconveniently-angled rail tracks anytime.
diphthong is offline  
Likes For diphthong:
Old 04-27-22, 01:08 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,629

Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3876 Post(s)
Liked 2,787 Times in 1,700 Posts
Originally Posted by Homebrew01
Just too risky. Too many crashes without cobbles.
Save cobbles for 1 day races.
Bike racing is too risky. We should all follow track and field instead.
MinnMan is offline  
Likes For MinnMan:
Old 04-27-22, 02:12 PM
  #7  
bored of "Senior Member"
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MD / metro DC
Posts: 2,800

Bikes: Cross-Check/Nexus commuter. Several others for various forms of play.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 622 Post(s)
Liked 537 Times in 416 Posts
Nerf cobbles?
slcbob is offline  
Likes For slcbob:
Old 04-27-22, 04:56 PM
  #8  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked 129 Times in 55 Posts
Let's have the tdf be on a velodrome only. Or is that too risky? Or no, on stationary bikes. Too risky again?
semroc is offline  
Likes For semroc:
Old 04-27-22, 06:52 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
GrainBrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Central Io-way
Posts: 2,627

Bikes: LeMond Zurich, Giant Talon 29er

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1199 Post(s)
Liked 588 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by ooga-booga
i'll take cobbles on wet and narrow roads vs a sharp turn in the last 3 kms or inconveniently-angled rail tracks anytime.
Yeah this all day. You can reclaim a ton of time in the mountains if you do poorly on cobbles.

I have fond memories of the 2018 tour, van Avermaet held the yellow jersey for the first stages and into stage 9(right?). First cobbled sector had an epic moto camera shot as van Avermaet led the peloton onto the sector. So boss. I looked around but couldn't find any video of it!

Degenkalb won the stage, super emotional after going 2nd to Sagan in the spring at roubaix and having lost his teammate a year prior?

Porte crashed out after hitting pot hole while taking a drink from a bottle, before the first sector! More injuries from road furniture and scummy roads then cobbles.

In the year 2525 they'll be hooked up to ultra-xwift (letter 'Z' deemed ultra taboo after the nuclear strikes) and use their minds!
GrainBrain is offline  
Old 04-28-22, 02:41 PM
  #10  
Meet me at spin class!!!!
 
HeyItsSara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: NY
Posts: 368

Bikes: Precor recumbant indoor bike, Stages bike at Equinox gym

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked 73 Times in 52 Posts
Originally Posted by semroc
Let's have the tdf be on a velodrome only. Or is that too risky? Or no, on stationary bikes. Too risky again?
ummm ... i'm supremely talented. i've fallen off of my stationary bike SEVERAL times!
HeyItsSara is offline  
Likes For HeyItsSara:
Old 04-29-22, 03:22 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
diphthong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: insane diego, california
Posts: 8,197

Bikes: 85 pinarello treviso steel, 88 nishiki olympic steel. 95 look kg 131 carbon, 11 trek madone 5.2 carbon

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1591 Post(s)
Liked 2,988 Times in 1,624 Posts
Originally Posted by slcbob
Nerf cobbles?

that sounds amazing right nowww....
diphthong is offline  
Old 04-29-22, 08:02 AM
  #12  
Sr Member on Sr bikes
 
_ForceD_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Rhode Island (sometimes in SE Florida)
Posts: 2,202

Bikes: Several...from old junk to new all-carbon.

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 959 Post(s)
Liked 698 Times in 373 Posts
Originally Posted by banana jam
Bring them on! Remember the Tour is meant to be won by the best "all around" rider, not the best climber, time trialist, or one day specialist. There is a technique for riding the cobbles as well as descending Cols at 70kph. May the best rider win!
I enjoy watching races on the cobbles just as much of many here. But I do disagree with the sentiment that the TdF is meant to be won by the best all-around rider. Although I wonít say that having some cobbles is a stupid idea. If an all-around winner was the aim of the TdF, wouldnít they also have stages of mountain bike racing, cyclo-cross, velodrome/track, and other disciplines of bicycle racing? Granted, in the early days of the TdF, some portions of the race were raced on gravel/dirt roads, and probably some cobble section. I think thatís just because the roads werenít paved with asphalt yet. But otherwise it has always been a road race. At least thatís what it has evolved into. I think a multi-discipline tour would be cool. But currently, if itís a road race, keep it a road race and leave the cobbles out of it.

Dan

Last edited by _ForceD_; 04-29-22 at 08:38 AM.
_ForceD_ is offline  
Old 04-29-22, 10:14 AM
  #13  
SeŮor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hardy, VA
Posts: 17,872

Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs

Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1468 Post(s)
Liked 1,005 Times in 602 Posts
Originally Posted by _ForceD_
I enjoy watching races on the cobbles just as much of many here. But I do disagree with the sentiment that the TdF is meant to be won by the best all-around rider. Although I won’t say that having some cobbles is a stupid idea. If an all-around winner was the aim of the TdF, wouldn’t they also have stages of mountain bike racing, cyclo-cross, velodrome/track, and other disciplines of bicycle racing? Granted, in the early days of the TdF, some portions of the race were raced on gravel/dirt roads, and probably some cobble section. I think that’s just because the roads weren’t paved with asphalt yet. But otherwise it has always been a road race. At least that’s what it has evolved into. I think a multi-discipline tour would be cool. But currently, if it’s a road race, keep it a road race and leave the cobbles out of it.

Dan
I'm pretty certain that being a road cyclist was a given in the post that you quoted.

Also, I disagree with the Author. A stage or two with some cobbled sectors helps generate interest in the stage(s) and also has the potential to open the door of opportunity to riders who aren't in the tight circle of "usual suspects" - even if it means only a stage podium or wearing a leader's jersey for a day or two. As to the "safety" concern... anyone who has watched a few Tours can tell you the entire first week is full of safety concerns - no matter the character of the stages.
__________________
In search of what to search for.

Last edited by USAZorro; 04-29-22 at 10:20 AM.
USAZorro is offline  
Likes For USAZorro:
Old 04-30-22, 11:04 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,470

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3373 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times in 253 Posts
I think current Grand Tour races should be on smooth pavement.

I get gravel, cobbles, CX etc. I see them as different types of events. The types that TdF winners might avoid all together.
Doge is offline  
Old 05-01-22, 01:26 AM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
diphthong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: insane diego, california
Posts: 8,197

Bikes: 85 pinarello treviso steel, 88 nishiki olympic steel. 95 look kg 131 carbon, 11 trek madone 5.2 carbon

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1591 Post(s)
Liked 2,988 Times in 1,624 Posts
cobbles or road furniture? flash poll!
diphthong is offline  
Old 05-01-22, 08:00 AM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2332 Post(s)
Liked 2,091 Times in 1,310 Posts
Cobbles add too much of an element of chance.

TdF or any Grand Tour should reward the best rider overall, not a good rider who was lucky.
GhostRider62 is offline  
Old 05-01-22, 11:28 AM
  #17  
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,577

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3856 Post(s)
Liked 2,526 Times in 1,555 Posts
Since there was no link in the OP, what kind of "cobbles" are we talking, anyway? True cobblestones? Pave? Old brick roads?

I would agree that sending the TdF peloton down the Arenberg Trench would be excessive, but experienced riders should be able to handle a little roughness.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 05-01-22, 12:13 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2332 Post(s)
Liked 2,091 Times in 1,310 Posts
It is true pave near the Belgium border. I think it is the same route that Froome crashed on.
GhostRider62 is offline  
Old 05-01-22, 01:13 PM
  #19  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 82
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 46 Times in 24 Posts
The TDF is arguably the most prestigious event in cycling. The winner should be able to prove him/her self on all types of road surfaces. These are highly paid professionals. Establishing routes for this race is very complicated and there are a lot of variables and logistics to consider. Smooth road racing with an emphasis on climbing or TT makes a not very interesting race. Think Nibali when you consider this years route. And other disciplines of cycling have their WC; however noting the crossovers recently, being strong is exactly that, no matter what machine you are on. Vive Le Tour!
banana jam is offline  
Likes For banana jam:
Old 05-05-22, 07:16 AM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
alcjphil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 5,796
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1750 Post(s)
Liked 1,610 Times in 922 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62
It is true pave near the Belgium border. I think it is the same route that Froome crashed on.
The year that Froome crashed on the cobbled stage his crashes happened before they reached the cobbled sections. Interestingly Nibali schooled all the other GC riders as well as almost all the classics specialists and finished third on the stage
alcjphil is offline  
Likes For alcjphil:
Old 05-05-22, 08:17 AM
  #21  
Full Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked 291 Times in 163 Posts
Cobbled pave in Europe's cycling mecca's are entwined in the history and romance of road racing there. It is part of cycling culture for anyone who has ridden in France, Belgium etc. I'll be tackling a few iconic cobbled roads myself next week; the Koppenberg being one, when visiting my wife's family in Belgium.

Sure, some of the one-day Classics are far more focussed upon cobbled sections but Le Tour is representative of Professional racing in France, it therefore should - must - be reflective of the country, cycling history and infrastructure. If cobbles were to not feature at all, by rule, then this must come from a joint debate and subsequent vote between the cyclists themselves and the Organisers.

The TDF is considered the premier cycling road event in the World, it attracts the very best teams, the very best riders. Each and every one of them can ride cobbles - how much risk they take when doing so will vary but that is no different to all other aspects such as descents etc.


AlgarveCycling is offline  
Likes For AlgarveCycling:
Old 05-05-22, 11:56 AM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,794
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1027 Post(s)
Liked 325 Times in 204 Posts
Originally Posted by banana jam
Bring them on! Remember the Tour is meant to be won by the best "all around" rider, not the best climber, time trialist, or one day specialist. There is a technique for riding the cobbles as well as descending Cols at 70kph. May the best rider win!
This. The "Tour of France" should include one of the iconic parts of French cycling.
OBoile is offline  
Old 05-05-22, 12:22 PM
  #23  
bored of "Senior Member"
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MD / metro DC
Posts: 2,800

Bikes: Cross-Check/Nexus commuter. Several others for various forms of play.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 622 Post(s)
Liked 537 Times in 416 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62
Cobbles add too much of an element of chance.

TdF or any Grand Tour should reward the best rider overall, not a good rider who was lucky.
That's the fallacy. Cobbles don't favor a good rider who was lucky. They reward a great rider who delivers and punish those who take it easy. Sure, there's some chance on the margins, but it's amazing how much skill and effort can mitigate the impact of luck, if not eliminate it. Race to the entry point, stay at the front, power through, and it's amazing how you're rewarded. Don't do that and roll the dice. The cobbles raise the stakes on both ends of that, and they alter the kind of rider who is best prepared to step up.

Cross-winds do the same thing. Should we stay off drafty parcours? How dare they ride through the Camargue? !!
slcbob is offline  
Likes For slcbob:
Old 05-05-22, 04:29 PM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2332 Post(s)
Liked 2,091 Times in 1,310 Posts
Originally Posted by slcbob
That's the fallacy. Cobbles don't favor a good rider who was lucky. They reward a great rider who delivers and punish those who take it easy. Sure, there's some chance on the margins, but it's amazing how much skill and effort can mitigate the impact of luck, if not eliminate it. Race to the entry point, stay at the front, power through, and it's amazing how you're rewarded. Don't do that and roll the dice. The cobbles raise the stakes on both ends of that, and they alter the kind of rider who is best prepared to step up.

Cross-winds do the same thing. Should we stay off drafty parcours? How dare they ride through the Camargue? !!
I have watched Paris Roubaix several times in person. In my opinion, it is a crap shoot that does not belong in a big tour. It is not a fallacy, it is my opinion that cobbles add an excessive element of chance.
GhostRider62 is offline  
Old 05-05-22, 04:31 PM
  #25  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2332 Post(s)
Liked 2,091 Times in 1,310 Posts
Originally Posted by alcjphil
The year that Froome crashed on the cobbled stage his crashes happened before they reached the cobbled sections. Interestingly Nibali schooled all the other GC riders as well as almost all the classics specialists and finished third on the stage
So, I was right? Same route? (I did not say Froome crashed on the cobbles.)
GhostRider62 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.