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LOOK!! This is why Basso,Ulrich Out Of Tour:Drugs!!

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LOOK!! This is why Basso,Ulrich Out Of Tour:Drugs!!

Old 06-30-06, 01:13 PM
  #276  
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I've always liked Simoni even though he seemed like a cry-baby at times.
LOL - charming naivety once more - this is what everyone said after 67 and 98
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Old 06-30-06, 01:20 PM
  #277  
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Wow, some people still believe clean testing is proof of not using PEDs. Feel free to think Lance was clean, but don’t use the overused and bogus argument of he was tested a lot and passed them all (sorta ). Ullrich and Basso are fresh off major wins, you don’t think they just passed a bunch of tests too?

Sigh.
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Old 06-30-06, 01:21 PM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by Dove15
And how do they manage to get around the tests?
I think dopers are like anyone else who is doing something illegal. They are always one step ahead of detection technology...until they get careless or until something like this comes along where a list implicates people...
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Old 06-30-06, 01:24 PM
  #279  
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Originally Posted by Enthalpic
Wow, some people still believe clean testing is proof of not using PEDs.
If negatives could be proven, where would all the haters go?
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Old 06-30-06, 01:27 PM
  #280  
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Originally Posted by EURO
Every rider implicated in this scandal has been tested multiple times, using the same techniques as Launce. Tests are useless, the doctors are always ahead of them - it is AS LIKELY that Armstrong doped as Basso, Ullrich, Mancebo, Virenque, Pantani, Brouchard, Jalabert, Hinault etc etc etc.

This is the key problem with the Lance fans. They've not been in this sport long enough or deep enough to accept that they are ALL cheating, and that Lance is no different (apart from the fact that he does TV adverts saying he doesn't dope and made millions out of a book that proclaimed a clean lifestyle).
How many riders "implicated in this scandal" have been proven to be doping? Any? Serious question, cause I'd just like to know.
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Old 06-30-06, 01:27 PM
  #281  
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Originally Posted by DocRay
EDIT.

I changed my mind.

The whole sport is dirty, and Riis, Basso, Armstrong et al.are just typical.

I'm riding in July, the TDF is pointless, it's just a matter of the dopers caught VS. the dopers not-yet-caught.
Since I've been on this forum, there have been those who've complained about the newer forum members who are on the band wagon of Lance's success.

The above post epitomizes the short time bicycle racing fan. Unable or unwilling to make the accounts balance, they take an all or nothing approach to the problem. You have gone from having "What Would Ivan Basso Do" in your signature, parodying the "What would Jesus Do?" catch phrase as though Basso was someone to be revered, to abandoning him because of some media reports and allegations. What a fan.

Is the whole sport dirty or have you just been fanatical in your approach toward it? Is Paolo Bettini dirty? Is Tom Boonen dirty? Is Phillipe Gilbert dirty? Was Christophe Basson dirty? Was Jonathon Vaughters dirty? Is Nick Nuyens dirty? Do you even know who these people are? These people are all part of the whole sport, but since your fanaticism is limited to the Tour Day France and the rider you wanted to win it, suddenly these other riders no longer exist?

You need to check yourself. The whole sport isn't dirty, even though there are individuals on this forum who are making a concerted effort to convince everyone it is. Those individuals should be denounced. There are many riders with talent and integrity who deserve our praise. This whole affair is still in it's infancy, yet everyone is rushing to judgement. Perhaps if you wait until riders are convicted of something or test positive for something, then you can say with some certainty, "Those riders are dirty."

Till then, enjoy your ride.

Last edited by waltergodefroot; 06-30-06 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 06-30-06, 01:29 PM
  #282  
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If negatives could be proven, where would all the haters go?
It's not about being a hater, it's about being realistic.

I love the sport, I've always known that they are all doping and I don't care. What I do care about is riders making a career and money out of pretending they are clean-living medical miracles.
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Old 06-30-06, 01:30 PM
  #283  
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You need to check yourself. The whole sport isn't dirty
You are right, as a sucessful European amateur told me the other week in France 'just assume 99.9% of them are doping'
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Old 06-30-06, 01:31 PM
  #284  
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Originally Posted by EURO
This is the key problem with the Lance fans. They've not been in this sport long enough or deep enough to accept that they are ALL cheating, and that Lance is no different (apart from the fact that he does TV adverts saying he doesn't dope and made millions out of a book that proclaimed a clean lifestyle).
+1. Lance was tested very frequently but so were other top riders. Many of whom were actually competing throughout the year rather than selectively like Lance. Tyler was tested in and out of competition and it wasn't until he somehow got someone else's blood did he get caught. David Miller didn't get busted for failing a test yet he was a World Champion. You people don't believe he was tested? He won the rainbow jersey and still tested clean yet admitted he had taken EPO to win it. So you see it is completely plausible that a rider can dope and not test positive.
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Old 06-30-06, 01:35 PM
  #285  
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Originally Posted by waltergodefroot
You need to check yourself. The whole sport isn't dirty, even though there are individuals on this forum who are making a concerted effort to convince everyone it is. Those individuals should be denounced. There are many riders with talent and integrity who deserve our praise. This whole affair is still in it's infancy, yet everyone is rushing to judgement. Perhaps if you wait until riders are convicted of something or test positive for something, then you can say with some certainty, "Those riders are dirty."

Till then, enjoy your ride.
You need to realize that the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, and the Easter Bunny aren't real. One doctor gets busted and 58 of the best riders in the pro peloton are found to be using his services to cheat. So you think this is an isolated case of a few bad apples? You need to check yourself and quit dreaming. Frankly the reason the peloton is so full of dopers is because to many who run the sport have your attitude. "It's only a few who cheat", "The sport is clean but for these few bad actors". BS, maybe now the sport will wake up and the people with the money will start to demand that they clean up their act.
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Old 06-30-06, 01:36 PM
  #286  
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Just like the computer hackers are always ahead of the computer defenders. The dopers are ahead of the dope detectors.
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Old 06-30-06, 01:38 PM
  #287  
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Originally Posted by EURO
It's not about being a hater, it's about being realistic.

I love the sport, I've always known that they are all doping and I don't care. What I do care about is riders making a career and money out of pretending they are clean-living medical miracles.
So is it realistic to say that because someone tested negative 100% of the time, they are clean, or that they just managed to beat the system 100% of the time.

The "everyone does it" routine just sounds so tired. I wonder how many wannabe, has been never wasses that doped use the "everyone does it" argument as just venting for their own guilty consciences. Many posts seem so sure that everyone does it, but what is the proof? Once again, the fact that a negative can never be proven is the only ally that that argument still has.

I think it's time to give it up, but I can rest assured that you won't. To be sincere for a moment, I feel sad for someone who can't let it go. So much anger! Sad.

Yup, I might be wrong, ole lancey may have been high as a kite, but I'll get over it a lot sooner than those who can't get over the possibility that he never was.
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Old 06-30-06, 01:40 PM
  #288  
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Originally Posted by EURO
You are right, as a sucessful European amateur told me the other week in France 'just assume 99.9% of them are doping'
Guilty conscience on the part of the person who saaid that. In other words he is, but can't accept being beaten by those who aren't.
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Old 06-30-06, 01:40 PM
  #289  
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How to clean the sport though? I really couldn't give a rat's ass about Lance, he's one guy in a sport dominated by cheating. Besides Lance STILL hasn't been paid his Tour bonuses, THAT'S what he's been fightin' for. Now he may never get the dough.
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Old 06-30-06, 01:41 PM
  #290  
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So is it realistic to say that because someone tested negative 100% of the time, they are clean, or that they just managed to beat the system 100% of the time.
Forget the stupid tests! They don't work! After today surely that hammers that fact home for the final time?

Lance doped because Lance doped. Everyone in the sport knows this. I know the world seems a more special place if magical miracle Lance were real, but he ain't, sorry.
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Old 06-30-06, 01:44 PM
  #291  
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Originally Posted by EURO
Lance doped because Lance doped. Everyone in the sport knows this. I know the world seems a more special place if magical miracle Lance were real, but he ain't, sorry.

Yikes!!

Try the decaf....seriously
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Old 06-30-06, 01:46 PM
  #292  
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This report filed June 30, 2006

Internet odds makers quickly reacted to Friday's news that top riders Ivan Basso (CSC), Jan Ullrich (T-Mobile) and Francisco Mancebo (Ag2r) have been excluded from the Tour de France by their respective teams after being named as suspects in the ongoing Spanish doping investigation, known as Operación Puerto.

Liège-Bastogne-Liège winner, Alejandro Valverde (Caisse d'Épargne-Illes Balears) and Astaná-Würth's Alexandre Vinokourov emerged as the two favorites, given odds of seven-to-two to wear the yellow jersey into Paris on July 23, while Amercans Levi Leipheimer (Gerolsteiner) and Floyd Landis (Phonak) follow at seven-to-one.

Internet Bookmakers' odds for Tour de France
(As of 5:00 p.m. Friday)

* Alejandro Valverde (ILL) -7/2
* Alexandre Vinokourov (Wur) -7/2
* Levi Leipheimer (Ger) -7/1
* Floyd Landis (Pho) -7/1
* Cadel Evans (Dav) -10/1
* Yaroslav Popovych (Dis) -12/1
* Paolo Savoldelli (Dis) -20/1
* Andreas Kloden (T-M) -20/1
* Michael Rasmussen (Rab) -25/1
* Denis Menchov (Rab) -25/1
* George Hincapie (Dis) -25/1
* Iban Mayo (Eus) -25/1
* Jose Azevedo (Dis) -25/1
* Christophe Moreau (Ag2) -33/1
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Old 06-30-06, 01:46 PM
  #293  
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Guilty conscience on the part of the person who saaid that. In other words he is, but can't accept being beaten by those who aren't.
OR, he knows pros, as many European amateurs do, and he knows that they are doping - because it's an open secret in the sport.
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Old 06-30-06, 01:47 PM
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Wow there is some serious carnage in the fallout. AG2R has a serious GC contender now? ha
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Old 06-30-06, 01:47 PM
  #295  
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Try the decaf....seriously
#
I suggest you stop taking the 'happy land' pills.
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Old 06-30-06, 01:49 PM
  #296  
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Originally Posted by ggusta
Yikes!!

Try the decaf....seriously
I can count the times I've agreed with EURO on one hand, and I'm missing most of the fingers on that hand. But I'm sorry to tell you this, he's right. Ask yourself this (and all the others who think this is an isolated case) did you believe Tyler? Because it's now confirmed he doped. He's not only on the list but his program has been made public.
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Old 06-30-06, 01:51 PM
  #297  
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His program's public? Where can i get a copy. I bet I can go up at least at category with a program like his.
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Old 06-30-06, 01:53 PM
  #298  
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Originally Posted by TYB069
They seriously need to cancel the prologue and maybe the first couple stages so they can clear this up. They need some time to do some DNA tests and then suspend. I guess I'm just spoiled by due process.
See, now I, being a bit more cynical, assumed they timed this exactly so there wouldn't be time to 'clear this up' before the prologue, and therefore they could be sure all the suspensions would stick for the Tour even if riders hired high-power attorneys...
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Old 06-30-06, 01:55 PM
  #299  
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cancel the damned thing
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Old 06-30-06, 01:55 PM
  #300  
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how could I possibly resist the urge to be bitter, disenchanted, angry, hateful and cycnical. Sign me up!

Truth is, been where you mind is at (not in cycling, of course, just in general)

Frankly, it didn't work for me like it seems to be working for you. Takes a lot of work and I was always having to ramp it up another notch. Eventually, I made peace with all that

I'm sorry I stumbled into your world, obviously "inclusiveness" on this thread ends when someone doesn't agree with the dominant paradigm. I have been successfully run off the thread.

Good job. Your work is done here.

PS: and who has tested positive in the wake of this recent scandal? I am still waiting to hear that just for my own edification.
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