Notices
Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

"Escapee Tactics"

Old 07-05-06, 09:42 AM
  #1  
Bacciagalupe
Professional Fuss-Budget
Thread Starter
 
Bacciagalupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,470
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
"Escapee Tactics"

So, I'm sort of kind of getting the hang of team tactics for a stage race like the TdF, and understand that while overall it's the mountain climbs that make the biggest difference, winning any stage is still difficult and prestigious.

So, it seems like in these early sprinting stages, you have a handful of "escapees" who are a minute or two ahead of the peloton, and towards the end of the stage the peloton catches up with them. So tactically, what if any advantage is there to being an escapee, either for that rider or for their team, especially if you are not drafting someone?
Bacciagalupe is offline  
Old 07-05-06, 10:07 AM
  #2  
NW NJ Biker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Sussex County NJ
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Because sometimes, like yesterday, the "escapee" does not get caught.
NW NJ Biker is offline  
Old 07-05-06, 10:09 AM
  #3  
robow
Senior Member
 
robow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,568
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 435 Post(s)
Liked 131 Times in 93 Posts
Well the idea is that you can time it just right and finish 1st just before the peleton can reel you back in.
robow is offline  
Old 07-05-06, 10:47 AM
  #4  
CaptainKurt99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami, Fl
Posts: 146

Bikes: Giant TCR Hybrid Roadie / Diamondback SL Super(Mntn Bike)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You also get TV time for your sponsor
CaptainKurt99 is offline  
Old 07-05-06, 10:54 AM
  #5  
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by CaptainKurt99
You also get TV time for your sponsor
And the TV time happens no matter what.

Also someone has to work to pull the break back and that is NOT going to be the teams who have someone in the break. This means your teammates do not have to work for the day. On sprinters stages the best sprinter or two on the team won't be working anyway. But if you don't have to chase and the other sprinters teams do it means your leadout men was fresher and it improves the teams chances at the end of the day.
Keith99 is offline  
Old 07-05-06, 10:55 AM
  #6  
Bacciagalupe
Professional Fuss-Budget
Thread Starter
 
Bacciagalupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,470
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
H'm. I guess the thing I don't quite get is that I assume it's much harder to keep up that level of energy, as a solo rider, than if you're drafting. Based on what little I understand of stage-riding tactics, it seems like the optimal place is in the 2nd row of the peloton -- drafting with lower chances of getting caught in a crash.

So are most of the escapees in the early stages primarily trying to win these early stages, and are less concerned about saving up energy for the later stages?
Bacciagalupe is offline  
Old 07-05-06, 11:52 AM
  #7  
hollow
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 421

Bikes: Cervelo P2K, Cannondale R1000

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe
H'm. I guess the thing I don't quite get is that I assume it's much harder to keep up that level of energy, as a solo rider, than if you're drafting. Based on what little I understand of stage-riding tactics, it seems like the optimal place is in the 2nd row of the peloton -- drafting with lower chances of getting caught in a crash.

So are most of the escapees in the early stages primarily trying to win these early stages, and are less concerned about saving up energy for the later stages?
It kind of depends on what their team's tactics are. If they don't have a serious GC or sprint contender, then they don't have to worry too much about saving their energy for the next couple of days. Look at who was in the break today, none of the big sprint or GC teams, with the exception of Martinez. And how often do you see Discovery guys in breaks. Not often, and it's usually a tactical move eventhough, many here think Bruyneel is a horrilbe DS.

It is certainly easier to sit in the pack all the time, but thank God they don't do it. If they did I would just tune in for the last 5K on each sprint stage.

As others said, they certainly would like to win the stage, but their team management and sponsors are still happy if they were on television for 3 or 4 hours.
hollow is offline  
Old 07-05-06, 11:57 AM
  #8  
CaptainKurt99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami, Fl
Posts: 146

Bikes: Giant TCR Hybrid Roadie / Diamondback SL Super(Mntn Bike)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Keith99
And the TV time happens no matter what.
And do they show the break more on TV or the middle of the peloton?

Is it easier to see the sponsor logos in the break or in the peloton?

Last edited by CaptainKurt99; 07-05-06 at 12:03 PM.
CaptainKurt99 is offline  
Old 07-05-06, 12:00 PM
  #9  
TRaffic Jammer
Dances With Cars
 
TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 10,527

Bikes: TBL Onyx Pro(ss converted), Pake SS (starting to look kinda pimped)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If you are on a break in the front for the better part of the stage, either alone of in a group of say 5-10, the sponsor is happy for the day. The break group gets gobs of camera time. Win and the sponsor is even happier.
TRaffic Jammer is offline  
Old 07-05-06, 12:02 PM
  #10  
CaptainKurt99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami, Fl
Posts: 146

Bikes: Giant TCR Hybrid Roadie / Diamondback SL Super(Mntn Bike)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer
If you are on a break in the front for the better part of the stage, either alone of in a group of say 5-10, the sponsor is happy for the day. The break group gets gobs of camera time. Win and the sponsor is even happier.
yep
CaptainKurt99 is offline  
Old 07-05-06, 12:08 PM
  #11  
TRaffic Jammer
Dances With Cars
 
TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 10,527

Bikes: TBL Onyx Pro(ss converted), Pake SS (starting to look kinda pimped)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
That being said T-mobile is thrilled with Kessler.
TRaffic Jammer is offline  
Old 07-05-06, 12:45 PM
  #12  
Tommyp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Boulder
Posts: 83

Bikes: 2004 Felt f70

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Or today Martinez jumped into the top 5 thanks to the time bonuses.
As for Disco's tactics, they now have 3 riders in the top 10 (5 in the top 30) of the GC. They are not my favorite team by any means but they have been riding smart thus far.
Tommyp is offline  
Old 07-05-06, 04:06 PM
  #13  
godspiral
Senior Member
 
godspiral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
They've just been wasting time for the first few stages. Breaks happen because the peloton goes too slow. It tires out the sprinter support teams. In a few more stages there will be a chance of winning on a break, as teams get more tired and start bickering about who should lead the chase. There have been flat stages where the winners got to 30 minute leads, and won by 20 or so (hope Im remembering this right).

The key to a successful breakaway is not enough people in peloton that care whether it is successful or not. Once the sprinters are out of range of the yellow jersey (sunday's TT), and their teams tire, and there is a spread among riders in GC, then breakaways will be successful.
godspiral is offline  
Old 07-05-06, 04:17 PM
  #14  
OrionKhan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by godspiral
They've just been wasting time for the first few stages. Breaks happen because the peloton goes too slow. It tires out the sprinter support teams. In a few more stages there will be a chance of winning on a break, as teams get more tired and start bickering about who should lead the chase. There have been flat stages where the winners got to 30 minute leads, and won by 20 or so (hope Im remembering this right).

The key to a successful breakaway is not enough people in peloton that care whether it is successful or not. Once the sprinters are out of range of the yellow jersey (sunday's TT), and their teams tire, and there is a spread among riders in GC, then breakaways will be successful.

I think those breaks you're talkin' about usually happen after the first big mountain stages. Then there are clear cut yellor jersey contenders and you've got riders an hour behind on time. When they break nobody cares other than their individual teams. They only get chased down when one of the jersey contenders are in jeopardy. Like the green or white...
OrionKhan is offline  
Old 07-05-06, 05:03 PM
  #15  
TRaffic Jammer
Dances With Cars
 
TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 10,527

Bikes: TBL Onyx Pro(ss converted), Pake SS (starting to look kinda pimped)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
At the beginning...EVERYTHING matters
TRaffic Jammer is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.