lotek 

ok, A few things I've read (albeit today) and a few comments.

Normal testosterone to Epitestosterone ratios run between 4:1 and 6:1.
WADA recently lowered the upper limit of their acceptable ratios (could be 5.5:1 and if your 5.6:1 your guilty).
Floyd will have to prove a normal high T/E ratio to clear himself.
now, my questions. I'm guessing this is bloodwork? was this the first time he was
tested at the tour? if not what was previous t/e ratio?
Testosterone injections/patch etc. would not produce results in one day so the
alleged "doping" would have to have taken place previously.
Hmmm, was this why Phonak was so willing to give up the yellow jersey (cause
yellow jersey wearer is guaranteed to be tested).

comments.
Euro you're loving this aren't you? personally I find the whole thing a bit sad,
not that I don't believe the results nor do I believe the entire peloton is clean
but that a very enjoyable tour has been besmirched

Alan puhleez, give the french conspiracy a rest, this isn't a witch hunt and
it isn't a personal vendetta against all things (cyclists) american.

everyone else be civil (I have to go and merge about 239,566 floyd threads).

marty

E5Tarmac

that was Phunny

'nother

If..IF...yeah, they sure as hell better take away the win. Next few days should prove very interesting, perhaps more interesting than the Tour itself...

Hipcycler

Just saw Oscar quoted on this topic.
Says it wouldn't interest him.

He said the only way you win Le Tour is on the road...any other way would just be bureaucratic and mean nothing.

Pretty class answer in a tough situation.

air-phil

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he no-show those races PRIOR to the announcement that it was him who failed the test?

I'm not a Floyd- or anyone-hater, just want to know what's really going on like the rest of us.

alanbikehouston

WADA formerly had a standard for the T/E ratio for testosterone testing of 6:1. The average guy, on an average day, has a T/E ratio of around 1:1. But, among 1,000 guys, a few might have a T/E ratio of 4:1 and a rare guy might have a ratio of 5:1 or 6:1.

In 2005, WADA decided to lower the T/E standard from 6:1 to just 4:1, based on research showing that only a small percentage of men would violate the 4:1 ratio without some sort of artificial help.

Under the WADA standard, if the "A" sample exceeds the 4:1 ratio, then the "B" sample is tested. If the "B" sample also exceeds 4:1, the rider is asked to show the reason why. That reason could include that the rider's ratio was elevated by approved medication, or that the rider's own natural ratio sometime exceeds 4:1. If the rider does not provide an explanation for a ratio over 4:1, then he is deemed to have failed the test, and he is subject to discipline, and the results of the tests are made public.

In this case, the results of the Landis test was provided to the Times of London by someone "close" to the lab before the results were given to Landis and Landis allowed to respond. This is the same lab castigated recently for illegally giving confidential information about Lance Armstrong to the French press. When the lab got caught in the Armstrong case, they suspended an employee, and claimed the lab would clean up its act. Well, it looks like the lab needs a bigger broom.

Conspiracy? The Houston police lab was recently found to have been botching DNA tests that resulted in innocent men going to prison. It was just incompetence. But, amazingly, when the lab made an error, the error usually resulted in a "positive" for the exact same guy that the police had designated as the prime suspect. Given that there are over a million men in Houston, what were the odds of THAT happening? Naw...conspiracy theories are just silly...

flythebike

It really could have been the beer.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

flythebike

Once again the proper procedures haven't been followed in this case. Nobody should have known didly squat about this until the B sample had been tested. Now that everyone knows who is under scrutiny, the impartiality of the testing is compromised. Just like a jury pool being polluted.

Cosmoline

Exactly. This is a smear campaign, which makes me wonder how reliable the results really are. If this turns out to be bogus, we should bomb the lab.

rufvelo

But if offered, he probably will and should take the win. It is only fair, and rewarding in many ways.

EURO

PHONAK MADE IT PUBLIC. Becasue LANDIS HAS DISSAPEARED and everyone was JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS because Landis was one of only 4 riders tested on that stage.

THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY!!

EURO

That's what they all say. Why? Because they all dope.

Hipcycler

Ahhhhh EURO....

Just noticed your updated I-D tag modeled after mine.....laughed out loud at work!

thanks....

Hipcycler

Look, the guy isn't guilty of anything right now.

Can everyone please just take a deep breath here?

....and let me bring Archie Bunker into the fold for a moment now....
That's right....from my favorite old TV show....how about we do in cycling what he suggested to do to end the hijacking problem in the 70's?

We just pass out guns to everyone as they board the jet, that way the playing field is leveled.

Let 'em all take whatever they want and race it out up the mountains.

CyLowe97

So, what's your real take here? Do you accept doping as fait accompli and just enjoy bike racing as it is, or are you incensed and think the major players finally taking a fall is exactly what the 'sport' needs to cleanse itself?

Despite all of your loving comments out here to stir the pot, it's plain to see that you most likely have an intelligent opinion about pro cycling. WE know that you are a talented racer. It would be great to get a straight analysis from you.

Thoughts?

tinrobot

Not good. Not good at all.

Because the positive test was for the stage where Landis rode like superman, even if he manages to clear himself, there will always be doubts.

substructure

They'll eventually test everyone on the tour and find out the only clean cyclists are the ones with DNF beside their names.

CyLowe97

Yeah, it'll be like the All Drug Olympics covered by SNL back in 1988....

Dennis Miller: In response to what its sponsors claim is an idea whose time has come, the first All-Drug Olympics opened today in Bogota, Columbia. Athletes are allowed to take any substance whatsoever before, after, and even during the competition. So far, 115 world records have been shattered! We go now to correspondent Kevin Nealon, live in Bogota for the Weightlifting Finals. Kevin?

Kevin Nealon: Dennis, getting ready to lift now is Sergei Akmudov of the Soviet Union. His trainer has told me that he's taken antibolic steroids, Novacaine, Nyquil, Darvon, and some sort of fish paralyzer. Also, I believe he's had a few cocktails within the last hour or so. All of this is, of course, perfectly legal at the All-Drug Olympics, in fact it's encouraged. Akmudov is getting set now, he's going for a cleaning jerk of over 1500 pounds, which would triple the existing world record. That's an awful lot of weight, Dennis, and here he goes.

[ Kevin steps aside to reveal the steroid-bulked athlete bent over to lift the 1500 lbs. weight. Sergei tightens his grip on the barbells and pulls up, but instead of lifting the weights, his arms are pulled off and blood squirts ferociously out of his pulpy stubs.

Kevin Nealon: Oh! He pulled his arms off! He's pulled his arms off, that's gotta be disappointing to the big Russian! [ Sergei's trainer wraps a towel around him ] You know, you hate to see something like this happen, Dennis! He probably doesn't have that much pain right now, but I think tomorrow he's really gonna feel that, Dennis! Back to you!

squeakywheel

"High doses of alcohol increase urinary testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio in females."

You callin Floyd a girlyman?

How many beers did he have the night before anyway? Hard to believe it was a "high dose".

tinrobot

If he's found guilty - he loses the title and is banned from the tour for a while.

Not guilty - well, he still rode like superman on that stage, so there will always be lingering doubts.

Sad. I like Landis, but no matter what the outcome, he loses something.

Travelinguyrt

Here we go again another 2-3 years of lies accusations incriminations and pure gossip

This thread in 6 months will prob be 200 inches long and noone the wiser or convinced otherwise of his or her belief

EURO

Firstly, there is no 'finally' - the major players have been taking falls for ages. Pantani, the Festina scandal, Simpson, Hamilton etc.

My take - everyone is doping, it will never stop. Since accepting that many years ago, I don't let it ruin my enjoyment of what is the only sport I care about. Doping doesn't do anything to the spectacle of racing, if you accept that 99% are doping and it is actually pretty much a level playing field.

I don't mind it when a rider keeps quiet on the issue of doping. What does anger me is ANY rider who speaks out against doping. It is that hypocrisy that I find disgusting. Unfortunately in the Armstrong and post-Armstrong era, there is too much money to be made from your 'IP' in clothing/books/movies etc. This means that the temptation to be 'anti-doping', when you are in fact doping is very strong.

I also resent the new cycling fans that refuse to accept the reality of the situation. When I first learnt the reality of doping in the sport I accepted it, somewhat disappointed. I DID NOT blame a given country, try to find scapegoats or look for conspiracy theories.

Nope, if he's found guilty he'll be banned from all races for 2 years, from the Pro Tour for four years and have a lifetime ban from the olympics. The end of his career.

EURO

Hope you take it in the spirit of fun it's intended!

Karlotta

Well put.

CyLowe97

Thanks for the take. The scales have fallen away from my eyes in recent months, mostly because of places like BikeForums, where there is no spin to sell a product or be allegent to a sponsor.