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Is this theory plausible?

Old 08-10-06, 08:53 AM
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Richard_Rides
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Is this theory plausible?

Here's what I think Floyd did, let me know if this is a likely scenario. Weeks before the Tour Floyd is taking testosterone and whatever other things a world class biker takes, EPO, etc.. During pre TDF training he is also storing his red blood cells in a refrigerator for future doping requirements... At some point before the race, he discontinues consumption of any banned substances.

After stage 16 he goes to his room and takes 2 units of packed cells that he had saved "for a rainy day". The problem however, is a mistake was made, the bood cells that he had previously stored were stored during a point in time when he was on synthetic testosterone.

So suddenly Floyd has inadvertantly reintroduced synthetic testosterone into his body along with his red blood cells.

I think this is a possible explaination, one problem with my theory is that given his entire blood volume, the testosterone levels in the blood he doped would have to be extremely high to produce the levels it did in urine.

I really am ignorant when it comes to this subject, but I'm not satisfied with any of the explainations Floyd has come up with, and something DID happen, I'm just trying to speculate as to what really happened.

What do you guys think?

Last edited by Richard_Rides; 08-10-06 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 08-10-06, 09:12 AM
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I don't think blood doping is common during competition, it was my impression a transfusion before an event would last a few weeks.
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Old 08-10-06, 09:13 AM
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Plausible. New idea.
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Old 08-10-06, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by EURO
I don't think blood doping is common during competition, it was my impression a transfusion before an event would last a few weeks.
Yeah actually he might be right about that, probably it is unlikely, but it could have happened.

If you want to believe Landis but don't think there is a problem with the test, "The Team Did It" is your mostly likely scenario.
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Old 08-10-06, 10:02 AM
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Big problem with your theory is that the Testosterone/Epitestosterone ratio was 11 to 1. That is off the chart. Even if the testosterone level in the transfused blood was extremely high it would not push the ratio that out of line (assuming no epi in the transfusion).

At best your theory could explain part of the results, e.g. the isotope test results.

I however would seriously doubt that any team would nmake this kind of mistake.
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Old 08-10-06, 05:46 PM
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Maybe he meant to have the patch on for only a few hours, but got drunk and forgot to take it off.
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Old 08-10-06, 06:52 PM
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yeah, the theory is a good one, and is how guys like Heras got popped etc.. Their defence was why would I take EPO the day before a big time trial, it wouldnt do me any good, but they were really reinfusing epo tainted blood. Since that happened, Fuentes was popular becuase he scrubbed it before it went back into you..

I don't think theyre would be enough synth. test. in the blood to make the ratio so high, nor would it explain the low E if that rumors are correct.

It may not have even been floyds urine, as cathertizing clean urine in before a test is old school technology as well but still around, just kinda nasty if you think about it.
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Old 08-10-06, 07:12 PM
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Wow
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Old 08-10-06, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith99
Big problem with your theory is that the Testosterone/Epitestosterone ratio was 11 to 1. That is off the chart. Even if the testosterone level in the transfused blood was extremely high it would not push the ratio that out of line (assuming no epi in the transfusion).

At best your theory could explain part of the results, e.g. the isotope test results.

I however would seriously doubt that any team would nmake this kind of mistake.
Exactly.

Also, the OP theory seems to address the point many doctors have made: that it doesn't make sense to take testosterone just one day. But that assumes the testerone is being used for muscle building, which is not the point during the Tour. The point is recovery. And many doctors don't know about its benefits in this respect, because there are probably no studies that confirm it. It might be only a marginal benefit, and difficult if not impossible to measure scientifically, but in a race where every second counts, that doesn't mean taking just one dose can't make a significant difference.

I think suspect his epitestosterone numbers were off. Either he didn't have enough E in his patch, or the syn E (which he would take to mask the syn T so that he can still come in under 4:1) was absorbed faster than the syn T, or something like that.
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Old 08-11-06, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Smoothie104
It may not have even been floyds urine, as cathertizing clean urine in before a test is old school technology as well but still around, just kinda nasty if you think about it.
Smoothie, I had never thought of this trick. Of course I never rode professionally. Of course I would say it is best to use theriders own urine for this. I think it is worth pointing out that this means for any of the ideas about testing all riders it means that each and every rider has to stay under observation until they have provided a sample. A few minutes out of sight and it doesn't matter how careful they are when taking the actual sample, they can still get a false clean.
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Old 08-11-06, 05:01 PM
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If I ever turn pro I'm getting this rig:



You can also buy clean urine from these guys:

http://www.ureasample.com/buy-drug-t...idProduct=1072

I always though that only airline pilots and locomotive engineers needed help passing drug tests, but it's getting to the point that even bicyclists need to add this device to thier component list. I hope they make a Dura-Ace model...
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Old 08-11-06, 05:05 PM
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The regs require the bicyclist to strip from the thighs to above the waist, and for the chaperone to watch the urine leave the body and enter the collector vessel. I think that rig would likely be noticed under those circumstances.

Originally Posted by Richard_Rides
If I ever turn pro I'm getting this rig... I hope they make a Dura-Ace model...
What? No Campy?

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Old 08-11-06, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard_Rides
If I ever turn pro I'm getting this rig:



You can also buy clean urine from these guys:

http://www.ureasample.com/buy-drug-t...idProduct=1072

I always though that only airline pilots and locomotive engineers needed help passing drug tests, but it's getting to the point that even bicyclists need to add this device to thier component list. I hope they make a Dura-Ace model...
There was a football player who got caught with something similar to this a few years ago. The Whizzinator was what his was called. But this is the first time I see an actual kit. Hilarious. The lenghts some people will go to.
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Old 08-11-06, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith99
Big problem with your theory is that the Testosterone/Epitestosterone ratio was 11 to 1. That is off the chart. Even if the testosterone level in the transfused blood was extremely high it would not push the ratio that out of line (assuming no epi in the transfusion).
where would you get that idea? the average male produces about 5mg's of testosterone a day, which is of course 35mg's a week. a hopmone replacement therapy dose is 250mg's a week, and many bodybuilders take over 1g a week (500mg's is the standard "starter dose"). i don't know exactly how many mg's a week pro cyclists take, but i would guess 2-300mg's a week. do the math.

i think it's a good theory and it's basically the same one i put forward on another board awhile back.

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t356665.html
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Old 08-11-06, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by -VELOCITY-
There was a football player who got caught with something similar to this a few years ago. The Whizzinator was what his was called. But this is the first time I see an actual kit. Hilarious. The lenghts some people will go to.
It wasn't a football player, it was that moron, Tom Sizemore.

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