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Do you still care about the Tour after all this?

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Do you still care about the Tour after all this?

Old 07-25-07, 05:44 PM
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deadly downtube
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Do you still care about the Tour after all this?

This tour was sooooo exciting at first... yesterday and today I lost all enthusiasm for the tour.... might just stick to betting on keirin races....
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Old 07-25-07, 05:44 PM
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Yes.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:03 PM
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Sadly, yes. But less and less.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:03 PM
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Yes - but a bit less than before.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:04 PM
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This particular TdF? I'm ambivalent.

Next year's? I'll be back.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:04 PM
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i dont know

overall yes but this years tour... i just dont know
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Old 07-25-07, 06:07 PM
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Yes. It's the cheaters I don't care about, and they're being bounced. Unless pro cyclists are really, really, extraordinarily stupid, next year should be a cleaner race.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Order View Post
Yes. It's the cheaters I don't care about, and they're being bounced. Unless pro cyclists are really, really, extraordinarily stupid, next year should be a cleaner race.


That's what they said in 1988! And 2006!

Here are each rider's choices:
  1. Be "clean" but irrelevant and have a really hard time getting a contract next year, much less one that supports you and your family.
  2. Quit pro cycling
  3. Do what you and everybody else has to do.
The worst case for choosing (c) is you're caught and forced to retire. Right off the bat that's no worse than (b), and if you get away with it for enough races to place relatively well, you're already better off than (a). You gotta remember we're talking about making less than a hundred grand per year versus several hundred thousand, or even a million or millions.

Also, remember the mentality of most of these guys is that they'd be willing to take something that they know will kill them within a couple of years if it will make them a champion.

None of that will change, so I don't see why anything will be cleaner next year.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:31 PM
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it's the greatest sporting event in the world, with a wonderful, rich, layered, storied tradition.

Even these F'wads can't kill it.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:32 PM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
This particular TdF? I'm ambivalent.

Next year's? I'll be back.
same here
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Old 07-25-07, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head View Post


That's what they said in 1988! And 2006!

Here are each rider's choices:
  1. Be "clean" but irrelevant and have a really hard time getting a contract next year, much less one that supports you and your family.
  2. Quit pro cycling
  3. Do what you and everybody else has to do.
The worst case for choosing (c) is you're caught and forced to retire. Right off the bat that's no worse than (b), and if you get away with it for enough races to place relatively well, you're already better off than (a). You gotta remember we're talking about making less than a hundred grand per year versus several hundred thousand, or even a million.

Also, remember the mentality of most of these guys is that they'd be willing to take something that they know will kill them within a couple of years if it will make them a champion.

None of that will change, so I don't see why anything will be cleaner next year.
Anybody who can't support a family on less than a hundred grand a year is living too large for his salary.

Nevertheless, if you look at the history of the Tour, you'll notice that riders were cheating from the very beginning, so what they're doing today is within that vein. Still, a rider would have to be stupid to think that there's an upside to doping today-- even if it pays off in the short run.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by deadly downtube View Post
This tour was sooooo exciting at first... yesterday and today I lost all enthusiasm for the tour.... might just stick to betting on keirin races....
yes i care about the tour but i've also know for years that they all cheat, and really i don't care.

it's the witch hunt that's ruining cycling not the cheating, which is an integral part of pro cycling and most other sports.

so let's call off the witch hunt and let these guys race.

ed rader
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Old 07-25-07, 06:33 PM
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Absolute YES! And I am very happy for the clean riders.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by gpelpel View Post
And I am very happy for the clean riders.
Thanks for your support. I appreciate it.
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Old 07-25-07, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head View Post

That's what they said in 1988! And 2006!
That's what they said in 1904!
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Old 07-25-07, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Order View Post
Anybody who can't support a family on less than a hundred grand a year is living too large for his salary.

Nevertheless, if you look at the history of the Tour, you'll notice that riders were cheating from the very beginning, so what they're doing today is within that vein. Still, a rider would have to be stupid to think that there's an upside to doping today-- even if it pays off in the short run.
Kind of hard to think that given the lives of Lance Armstrong and even Ullrich, Riis, Hamilton, Flandis and Basso.
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Old 07-25-07, 07:14 PM
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Yes.. but I need some more time to reconcile..
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Old 07-25-07, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Helmet Head View Post
Kind of hard to think that given the lives of Lance Armstrong and even Ullrich, Riis, Hamilton, Flandis and Basso.
If Lance doped, it's never been proven. Allegations, yes. And maybe the allegations are true. So if he doped, he got away with it, and there was an upside for him.

Where's Landis's upside? Hamiltons? Basso's?

I don't see it.
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Old 07-25-07, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Order View Post
If Lance doped, it's never been proven. Allegations, yes. And maybe the allegations are true. So if he doped, he got away with it, and there was an upside for him.

Where's Landis's upside? Hamiltons? Basso's?

I don't see it.
What actually happened is immaterial. What matters is what the riders know, and they know he did it and got away with it.

Flandis, Hamilton and Basso all had relatively lucrative years in the profession that they would not have had if they had not doped. Flandis has a best seller as we speak. Hamilton had the deal with Speedplay, for example, not any of the also-rans.

By the way, you can add Heras to that list, who got paid tons to go work for Lance, then got a lucrative contract before he got caught. He's already talking about coming back.

Doping pays.
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Old 07-25-07, 07:25 PM
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Oh, HH, just tell me wheels are round, water is wet, anything we can agree on...
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Old 07-25-07, 07:26 PM
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Le Tour is catchind dopers - FINALLY. What has changed other than that fact? Why would my feelings change? I really don't understand this sentiment.

... Brad
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Old 07-25-07, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Jet Travis View Post
Sadly, yes. But less and less.

x2
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Old 07-25-07, 07:57 PM
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YES!!! Will still watch and hopefully next year will take my wife to see it live!!!
Let the players change..the play will still continue... hopefully cleaner.....
Le Tour, La Vuelta, Il Giro ..... they are great!!!
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Old 07-25-07, 08:00 PM
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Yes.
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Old 07-25-07, 09:17 PM
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Definitely. In fact, I give them credit for trying to clean up the sport and the tour, though the process has been poorly managed.
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