donrhummy

Any criminoligist can tell you that the harsh-punishment-deterrent type of thing never works, because they never think they'll be caught. The better thing to do, and this is no joke, is hire some psychologists/social workers and require 2 hours a week all year round to teach them why doping is wrong. And EVRERYONE including the DS, managers, cyclists are required to attend. They should make them group meetings like AA groups. Seriously, the key is NOT catching the dopers -- by that time it's too late and the bad press of catching them hurts the entire sport. Instead, they need to keep them from doping in the first place.

And heck, if Alcoholics Anonymous can be as successful as it is (and it is successful) with people who are PHYSICALLY and mentally addicted to something, then I'll bet this program (if done for real and confidentially -- what is said in the group STAYS in the group) can work too. Sure, it won't get rid of 100% of the dopers, but it'll get rid of more than just testing+punishment ever will.

VT Biker

Hmmm....

Hmmm.....

Not sure how to even respond to this........


Lets begin with this critique: Alcoholism is an addiction, and aside from the addiction, there is no incentive to use it from an external standpoint (i.e - success in life, job, performance etc..unless you want that fat chick at the bar to look better). Most people (once they accept they are addicted) want to stop using it.

PED's - while winning may be addicting, PED's are not an addition like alcohol. It is not like Armstrong is still loading up on EPO. To think that counseling would work is incorrect. Athletes doping do not want to stop using, because their livelihoods will be impacted due to the "free-rider" syndrome. The "free-rider" syndrome is killing most of the French teams already.

donrhummy

The fact that alcohol is an addiction is not WHY it works, rather it's why it's SO HARD to get people to stop!

And I think it would work because most dopers don't actually want to be doping. Rather, they want to win, feel good, get money, etc. They see doping as a necessary evil but I don't know of one single doper who is glad to dope and would keep doing it even if they retired. And many feel bad/guilty doing it and wish they could do without it. It would work.

Helmet Head

Brilliant.

USAZorro

They need to test more riders (the top 10 finishers on each stage at least)

Penalize the DS's and/or team managers too.

The anti-doping labs and agencies need to live up to their side of the bargain (zero tolerance of leaks, thoroughly trained technicians, strict adherence to protocols, etc).

They should also start a Sr. Professional circuit so that these guys who are 32, 33, 36, (notice the ages of the majority of the guys who have been busted) feel that they have a future in the sport and hopefully won't be so tempted to cheat to continue to earn a living, or to write their name in cycling history.

Subject all professional riders to the same testing, but ban participation (lifetime) for anyone with a substantiated 2nd positive (cumulative throughout the course of their career).

These are just some ideas - not a comprehensive program.

JPradun

If you were offered $2-5+ million to ride your bike for a living, but you had to dope...would you care what the hell a psychologist says?

VT Biker

You missed my point. There is no external incentive to drink. So once you decide that alcohol is bad, your life improves when you stop.

PED's are the opposite. No one wants to dope. But by not doping, they are out of work, because unless they can be certain everyone else is clean, they themselves will dope, thinking that everyone else is still going to dope. Hence - the "free-rider" syndrome. Everyone assumes everyone else is breaking the rules, so everyone breaks the rules. There would be no punishment for cheating under your plan.

donrhummy

Won't work. Everyone who wins a stage knows they'll be tested, has that stopped any of them from doping? Nope. Has 2-4 year bans? Nope. Lifetime bans for second offenses? Nope. testing out of competition? nope. Punishment-deterrents do NOT work. Testing and more testing doesn't work (see Lindsey Lohan and her alcohol-testing anklet + dope in the pocket for more info). THESE METHODS WILL NOT WORK.

donrhummy

That's not true. Alcohol is VERY pervasive in social life, especially in europe/asia. One of the toughest things for alcoholics is hanging out with other people all of whom want to consume alcohol. they're no longer a part of the group, or, if they're younger, not cool.

FixdGearHead

How about putting a skull and crossbones on the drugs, to let the riders know they're bad?

tinrobot

Maybe we could get Nancy Reagan to tell them to "just say no"

FixdGearHead

"You, Riis...I learned it by watching YOU"

VT Biker

So a psychologist, wearing a cardigan, playing light classical in his waiting room will deter riders from doping, but losing money and opportunities to ride will not?

Okay - and all these parents telling their children not to do drugs or have sex in high school is effective as well.

FixdGearHead

Link

rizz

AA has somewhere around a 5-10% success rate, which is about the same as folks quitting on their own. I'd say they aren't very successful at all. Anyway, the AA folks are trying to treat an addiction. Are we now suggesting that cyclists are addicted to the stuff their taking? Nope, definitely not. AA idea bad. Veto!

'nother

Classic.

IA'sker

I prefer criminalizing cheating under the racketeering statutes. These teams/riders are trying to steal by being better than they really are. I think we should carrry this over to all sports to get rid of doping. Barry Bonds would have thought twice if his dopping not his lying cost prison time. The teams or riders who cheat are defrauding the fans and the sponsors so they are criminally conspiring to steal. Call it what it is and prosecute it. Just my 2 cents.

ezoons

Just chop their goolies off.

Helmet Head

A weekly reminder of the denial/delusion/rationalizing thinking they are using will it make more difficult to continue.

slvoid

Ban doping under penalty of DEATH.

That way, their lives are literally on the line.

gabdy

Yes, but the feeling from doping and the rewards of winning could be very addictive indeed(For instance steroid users sometimes talk of euphoric feelings after they take the drugs). Once they retire they let go of the will to succeed in Cycling. Just like a normal drug addict, when they have had enough they let go too.
Also blood transfusions etc could also give a type of euphoric feeling, as having extra blood in your veins may do. Special Forces Soldiers use transfusions to heighten there senses prior to missions. I've read having the extra blood in your system can leave the subject feeling more of a man than normal ie "I felt like superman"

'nother

Bah, this is all BS.

The way to "solve" the doping problem is to just turn your head and say, "look, the Tour (and other major cycling events) have been going for X number of years, weathered World Wars, other cheating scandals, and so on, so it's all cool, see? You Johnny-come-lateley dope trolls just shut up because you know nothing about the sport. Nothing to see here. Go back to your newbie hole and talk with your other dope trolling friends. 'That is all.'"

harlond

donrhummy, while I'm not certain of your solution, I definitely agree with your premise that harsh punishment is a proven ineffective deterrent. I think it's instructive that so many posters insist that more of the same remedies that have demonstrated themselves to be complete failures are nonetheless superior.

'nother, your solution is succeeding in other sports, but I think the time for implementing it in cycling may have passed.

'nother

may have passed?

Look, sorry if your sarcasm meter wasn't pegged from my post, but yeah, it's *WAY* past that. But the problem seems intractable. Adding to that are the masses who are content to express their "care" for the sport by saying "it's been this way forever, just appreciate it for what it is, if you don't agree you are wrong and/or a newbie who knows nothing about this sport, 'That is all.', and so on."

El Diablo Rojo

I agree that harsh punishment is not working. We need a one time amnesty. Let all of those who are willing come forward and name names. Let them tell all with out any reciprocation's. Then if they ever test positive again it's a lifetime ban. No second chances. No one is going to tell all if they think that they will lose past wins, and have to pay back past earnings. Let the light of day shine on those who have been doing this in the dark, this includes the DS's and team managers who if not directly involved are turning a blind eye to what is going on. The only way to stop this is to have the majority of the peloton speak freely with out fear.