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stage 17 - Embrun L'Alpe-d'Huez 210.5 km Spoiler

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Old 07-23-08, 08:22 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by 2wheeled
Great point. I didn't get it either. Anyway I thought Evans rode quite well today and did what he needed to do to limit his loses.
I think Cadel had that "time" in his head that he could allow Sastre, and for my money it was 2 minutes. His DS in the car was surely yelling "Sastre has 2 minutes, you gotta go!" in his earpiece. And you could see Cadel was on the limit in the last 2-3 kilometers, barely holding that 2 minutes and not really gaining much back. He played it smart, he could have punched it at the bottom and then really blown up in the last half and lost maybe 4 minutes instead!
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Old 07-23-08, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
Allright. First CSC kept the pace high over the first 3 climbs, making the race hard, and causing other teams to lose support riders from the front of the group, and take some steam out of the other riders.

Notice that when they got to the final climb, CSC had both Schlecks, and Sastre. Evan had only himself.

Then Evans had to decide who tomark and who to let go. Calculating he could limit his losses and make up ground in the final TT he let Sastre go and marked Frank Schleck.

Then the Schlecks disrupted Evans rhythm. Evans would prefer to climb at one steady tempo. Instead, one Schleck or the other would accelerate in an attack, get caught, then sit up. So the constant attacks, disrupted Evan's rythym, and actually slowed the overall pace of the chase group(as evidenced by the fact that Menchov was able to regroup and join back on.)

What the Schlecks did was actually textbook "blocking" You don't physically obstruct the chase group. Rather by attacking, and then easing up repeatedly you disrupt the chase group.

Hope that helps.
very well said. every cat 3 and cat 4 amateur team that thinks blocking is clogging up the road gutter to gutter should watch todays stage, read your post, and learn from it.
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Old 07-23-08, 08:38 PM
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Please? Maybe we should include it in our conference meeting next year... got tired of Navy, Wake and Pfeiffer riders clogging the front this year.
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Old 07-23-08, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Devil
My gosh, I had NO idea Catherine Zeta-Jones could age a man like that - Michael Douglas looks positively "geezer-ancient" in that photo.

For all the attacks and pacing CSC did in the mountains (and I give them credit for incredible team strength and depth), and with almost zero team help for Cadel, I find it remarkable that Evans can still win this TdF with a good TT (he took 1:17 on Sastre in the first TT, and this next one is about 70% longer, so Cadel should be able to take 2+ minutes on Carlos this time, if the first one was any useful index).

OTOH, they've got one more stage with a climbing finish where more time gaps could theoretically be taken, making it possible it will come down to a gap of just seconds to win.
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Old 07-23-08, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SpongeDad
Did historical Alpe d'Huez stages usually include Galibier and Croix de Fer? For some reason I thought it was usually a flatter run up to the HC climb at the end.
Flatter?
Yes, the Galibier is usually included, and often either the Croix de Fer or else the Col du Glandon. Usually the stage goes in a different compass direction than today... usually they climb the Galibier on the more difficult, Telegraphe+Galibier combo side, which is immediately followed by l'Alpe at the end. The Croix de Fer was climbed over the more difficult side on this occasion.
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Old 07-23-08, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Dolomiti
Yes, the Galibier is usually included, and often either the Croix de Fer or else the Col du Glandon. Usually the stage goes in a different compass direction than today... usually they climb the Galibier on the more difficult, Telegraphe+Galibier combo side, which is immediately followed by l'Alpe at the end. The Croix de Fer was climbed over the more difficult side on this occasion.
That's another thing I love about the TdF - these classic mountains are often in the tour (and kudos to Lemond/Trek for putting the names of some of those classic mountains on its bike models to help make them more familiar, even for us lazy Americans), but from a different direction or sequence, so it's familiar, but still different nearly every time.
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Old 07-23-08, 09:38 PM
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Awesome stage today. Just awesome.
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Old 07-23-08, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by teetopkram
The REAL blame goes to Lotto management for not building a team around Evans, instead building it around aging and increasingly speedless McEwen. I didn't notice one Lotto guy around Evans on the final climb, at least not one doing any work. That's shameful for a GC contender, and every Lotto teammate of Evans should farkin' apologize to him for doing nothing...
This I don't quite get... Again and again Robbie (who historically has an awesome list of stage wins, despite not being the out-and-out fastest sprinter) has had to try to make something out of nothing, support wise. I don't recall seeing or reading about any major lead-outs for him this year.

In one of the interviews before one of the early sprinter's stages he was asked about his tactics and his reply was something to the effect of "I'll look to see which other team looks strong and try to hop on."

I think it's pretty obvious to say that Lotto just doesn't have the depth of some of the other teams this year, particularly CSC, which makes Evans' performance even more impressive, wheelsucker or not.
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Old 07-23-08, 11:08 PM
  #134  
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If Evans wins the tour with out winning a stage I will stop following cycling.









until the Olympics.
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Old 07-23-08, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by yellowjeep
If Evans wins the tour with out winning a stage I will stop following cycling.









until the Olympics.
Better get ready to quit for a few days. I believe he's going to do it.
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Old 07-24-08, 12:07 AM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by YATES
Better get ready to quit for a few days. I believe he's going to do it.
Insert sad face...
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Old 07-24-08, 12:38 AM
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Evans is playing smart with what he's got. If he wins he has outplayed the entire CSC team.
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Old 07-24-08, 12:39 AM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by C_Heath
Awesome stage today. Just awesome.
Well said.
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Old 07-24-08, 01:09 AM
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Evans is still the man. Sastre got some back today but, really, is he more deserving than Evans for the TDF win? I think not. He (Sastre) looks like a nice solid GC guy but, he's riding the big CSC train.

Sastre is sucking wheels for two weeks and now I'm supposed to praise him for putting a whopping 2+ mins. on Evans after the 17th Stage? Sheit. Weak sauce.

Evans is one tough, grinding Aussie. Screw Riis and that whole big CSC operation. They wont win.

Call me the noob but, please don't tell me Sastre is a champion. Boring, boring rider for a great team.
That's hardly the stuff of TDF history.
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Old 07-24-08, 01:41 AM
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Results on this stage are the best thing that could possibly have happened, as far as us the fans are concerned.

Had Cadel kept the time gap to under 1 minute we would know he would smoke Sastre in the time trial and win the GC.

Had the gap been over 2 minutes we'd know he'd probably lose. Sastre has been a pretty lousy timetrialist in the past but he did fairly well this year so far. He could finish within 2 minutes.

But no, the gap is something like 1:40 so we still don't know who will win overall.
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Old 07-24-08, 06:43 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by Allen H
OTOH, they've got one more stage with a climbing finish where more time gaps could theoretically be taken, making it possible it will come down to a gap of just seconds to win.

I wouldn't count on it. Cat 4 climb, with a run in of several kilometers after the climb. Odds are extremely strong there's no change on GC today or tomorrow.
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Old 07-24-08, 07:08 AM
  #142  
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Watching Sastre attack caused a sense of disorientation, like waking up one morning and seeing the sun rising in the west.

Nonetheless Carlos is the Mastre of Disastre. He'll lose three minutes (at least) to Evans in the TT.
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Old 07-24-08, 07:09 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by teetopkram
The REAL blame goes to Lotto management for not building a team around Evans, instead building it around aging and increasingly speedless McEwen. I didn't notice one Lotto guy around Evans on the final climb, at least not one doing any work. That's shameful for a GC contender, and every Lotto teammate of Evans should farkin' apologize to him for doing nothing...

JMHO,

Mark
Mark, Lotto DID build their entire tour team around Evans. The only one not working for Cadel is McEwen. Lotto brought no riders to help Robbie - he has been on his own. The fact that no Lotto rider was around Cadel in the mountains has more to do with the fact that Lotto has a weak team, than anything else.

... Brad
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Old 07-24-08, 07:24 AM
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+1 !!!!!
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Old 07-24-08, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
I wouldn't count on it. Cat 4 climb, with a run in of several kilometers after the climb. Odds are extremely strong there's no change on GC today or tomorrow.
Well, I wasn't counting on it - just suggesting it's not a likely group sprint finish, given the course profile. I'd think CSC SHOULD try to get a few more seconds anywhere, anyway they can - b/c I'll be very surprised if Sastre can stay within 2 minutes of Cadel on the ITT.
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Old 07-24-08, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by sjumper
While exciting, I'm not happy that the Tour will likely be won by a guy who made only one tiny attempt to attack... don't like the wheel sucker.
I, too, disagree.

I would agree completely with this, and with the complaints about Cadel possibly winning without winning a stage, if we'd never heard of Cadel before this year.

The thing is, the guy doesn't have stealth. EVERY GC contender knew that they would have to attack him in the mountains. Lotto could have painted a bullseye on his back on every mountain stage. He simply had to be attacked in the mountains, we knew it, the GC guys knew it, and he knew it.

That simply can NOT be an easy way to ride.

But despite every single GC hopeful knowing that they had to beat him in the mountains, danged few of them could do it. If he'd lost 3 minutes or 5 minutes on one of the climbs (like, say, VDV), we'd have all said "yup, he's not a climber, that was expected".

Instead, he rode WITH pretty much every single guy who knew they had to break him. Some got ahead of him, but nobody, except MAYBE Sastre, broke him.

If you can ride what 5, 6 days in the mountains with a bullseye on your back and fight them all off, well, that's good enough for me.

I love attacking riding as much as the next guy. That said, Cadel has been like a boxer with no arms, standing around in the ring, trying to endure until the final bell.

Everyone's taken their shot at him, and he's still here. My hat is off to him.

V
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Old 07-24-08, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Vuroth

I would agree completely with this, and with the complaints about Cadel possibly winning without winning a stage, if we'd never heard of Cadel before this year.

The thing is, the guy doesn't have stealth. EVERY GC contender knew that they would have to attack him in the mountains. Lotto could have painted a bullseye on his back on every mountain stage. He simply had to be attacked in the mountains, we knew it, the GC guys knew it, and he knew it.

That simply can NOT be an easy way to ride.


But despite every single GC hopeful knowing that they had to beat him in the mountains, danged few of them could do it. If he'd lost 3 minutes or 5 minutes on one of the climbs (like, say, VDV), we'd have all said "yup, he's not a climber, that was expected".

Instead, he rode WITH pretty much every single guy who knew they had to break him. Some got ahead of him, but nobody, except MAYBE Sastre, broke him.

If you can ride what 5, 6 days in the mountains with a bullseye on your back and fight them all off, well, that's good enough for me.

I love attacking riding as much as the next guy. That said, Cadel has been like a boxer with no arms, standing around in the ring, trying to endure until the final bell.

Everyone's taken their shot at him, and he's still here. My hat is off to him.

V
Nice synopsis - I agree.
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Old 07-24-08, 01:03 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by Vuroth
I, too, disagree.

I would agree completely with this, and with the complaints about Cadel possibly winning without winning a stage, if we'd never heard of Cadel before this year.

The thing is, the guy doesn't have stealth. EVERY GC contender knew that they would have to attack him in the mountains. Lotto could have painted a bullseye on his back on every mountain stage. He simply had to be attacked in the mountains, we knew it, the GC guys knew it, and he knew it.

That simply can NOT be an easy way to ride.

But despite every single GC hopeful knowing that they had to beat him in the mountains, danged few of them could do it. If he'd lost 3 minutes or 5 minutes on one of the climbs (like, say, VDV), we'd have all said "yup, he's not a climber, that was expected".

Instead, he rode WITH pretty much every single guy who knew they had to break him. Some got ahead of him, but nobody, except MAYBE Sastre, broke him.

If you can ride what 5, 6 days in the mountains with a bullseye on your back and fight them all off, well, that's good enough for me.

I love attacking riding as much as the next guy. That said, Cadel has been like a boxer with no arms, standing around in the ring, trying to endure until the final bell.

Everyone's taken their shot at him, and he's still here. My hat is off to him.

V
I also agree.

Funny how Christian is the hero and Cadel is the goat, even though they basically have ridden the same race.
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Old 07-24-08, 01:33 PM
  #149  
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I'm a pig.

The woman in the orange bikini jumping up and down at approximately 6.5k to go was INCREDIBLE.

Best part of the stage by far.
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Old 07-24-08, 01:46 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by aggro_jo
The woman in the orange bikini jumping up and down at approximately 6.5k to go was INCREDIBLE.

Best part of the stage by far.
How did I miss it!!!!

... Brad
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