Mark Cavendish vs Alessandro Petacchi vs Mario Cipollin
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Mark Cavendish vs Alessandro Petacchi vs Mario Cipollin
I loved Mario's sprints against Zabel, Tom Steels and crew some years ago.
Chipo always put on a good show for the girls, the TVs and the tabloids. Everyone knew him as a flamboyant show-man and we all loved him for it.
Then came Alessandro Petacchi, snatching 4 stages in the Tour De France, 6 stages in the Giro, and 5 stages in the Vuelta ALL IN THE SAME YEAR. He even won 9 stages (yes 9) in the Giro on one year.
All seem to have cleaned the first week of sprints, then abandoned when the mountains come. The acceleration from the overhead camera show that all men carry greater speed than anyone in the bunch
Is it just me, or does Cavy-boy seem a little arrogant and to ego-headed in a bad way? I mean, sure, the guy is good, but not Petacchi good, or Mario good for that matter.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of his interviews he always says things like: "It was very easy for me to win", or "I made a bet with everyone with 10K to go that I would win because Im just that good" or "it was too easy to win, im just faster than everyone else". His over confidence almost rubs in the wrong way...
I havent kept up with cycling like I used to, but is it just me, or is this new kid on the block need to wind his neck in a little?
What is everyone making such a big deal out of him anyway? I mean, he is a long ways from Mario's record, and certainly I dont think he will get 9 stages in a Grand Tour like Alessandro Petacchi did.
Is it just the boost of American fans/coverage that when any rider does half decent they make the world out of it???
Chipo always put on a good show for the girls, the TVs and the tabloids. Everyone knew him as a flamboyant show-man and we all loved him for it.
Then came Alessandro Petacchi, snatching 4 stages in the Tour De France, 6 stages in the Giro, and 5 stages in the Vuelta ALL IN THE SAME YEAR. He even won 9 stages (yes 9) in the Giro on one year.
All seem to have cleaned the first week of sprints, then abandoned when the mountains come. The acceleration from the overhead camera show that all men carry greater speed than anyone in the bunch
Is it just me, or does Cavy-boy seem a little arrogant and to ego-headed in a bad way? I mean, sure, the guy is good, but not Petacchi good, or Mario good for that matter.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of his interviews he always says things like: "It was very easy for me to win", or "I made a bet with everyone with 10K to go that I would win because Im just that good" or "it was too easy to win, im just faster than everyone else". His over confidence almost rubs in the wrong way...
I havent kept up with cycling like I used to, but is it just me, or is this new kid on the block need to wind his neck in a little?
What is everyone making such a big deal out of him anyway? I mean, he is a long ways from Mario's record, and certainly I dont think he will get 9 stages in a Grand Tour like Alessandro Petacchi did.
Is it just the boost of American fans/coverage that when any rider does half decent they make the world out of it???
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Cav doesn't really strike me as arrogant so much as a little egocentric. But he seems like he is trying to be humble to some degree. As much as he is able.
One thing that strikes me though. From watching several of the overhead sprint finishes this year. I don't think that Cav is as fast as Patacchi or even some of the other fastest sprinters. But one thing that I have noticed is that he can hold top speed for a longer period of time than most of these other guys. He seems to be able to hold top speed about twice as long as most of the other sprinters. So if the others sprinters don't move at exactly the right time Cav will catch and beat them. The one sprint in this years Giro, were Patacchi won he timed it perfectly. But if he jumps a little bit too soon Cav will take him.
He also seems to have a naturally good sense for when it is time to go which helps him a great deal.
One thing that strikes me though. From watching several of the overhead sprint finishes this year. I don't think that Cav is as fast as Patacchi or even some of the other fastest sprinters. But one thing that I have noticed is that he can hold top speed for a longer period of time than most of these other guys. He seems to be able to hold top speed about twice as long as most of the other sprinters. So if the others sprinters don't move at exactly the right time Cav will catch and beat them. The one sprint in this years Giro, were Patacchi won he timed it perfectly. But if he jumps a little bit too soon Cav will take him.
He also seems to have a naturally good sense for when it is time to go which helps him a great deal.
Last edited by Hezz; 07-04-09 at 06:47 PM.
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I loved Mario's sprints against Zabel, Tom Steels and crew some years ago.
Chipo always put on a good show for the girls, the TVs and the tabloids. Everyone knew him as a flamboyant show-man and we all loved him for it.
Then came Alessandro Petacchi, snatching 4 stages in the Tour De France, 6 stages in the Giro, and 5 stages in the Vuelta ALL IN THE SAME YEAR. He even won 9 stages (yes 9) in the Giro on one year.
All seem to have cleaned the first week of sprints, then abandoned when the mountains come. The acceleration from the overhead camera show that all men carry greater speed than anyone in the bunch
Is it just me, or does Cavy-boy seem a little arrogant and to ego-headed in a bad way? I mean, sure, the guy is good, but not Petacchi good, or Mario good for that matter.EVERY SINGLE ONE of his interviews he always says things like: "It was very easy for me to win", or "I made a bet with everyone with 10K to go that I would win because Im just that good" or "it was too easy to win, im just faster than everyone else". His over confidence almost rubs in the wrong way...
I havent kept up with cycling like I used to, but is it just me, or is this new kid on the block need to wind his neck in a little?
What is everyone making such a big deal out of him anyway? I mean, he is a long ways from Mario's record, and certainly I dont think he will get 9 stages in a Grand Tour like Alessandro Petacchi did.
Is it just the boost of American fans/coverage that when any rider does half decent they make the world out of it???
Chipo always put on a good show for the girls, the TVs and the tabloids. Everyone knew him as a flamboyant show-man and we all loved him for it.
Then came Alessandro Petacchi, snatching 4 stages in the Tour De France, 6 stages in the Giro, and 5 stages in the Vuelta ALL IN THE SAME YEAR. He even won 9 stages (yes 9) in the Giro on one year.
All seem to have cleaned the first week of sprints, then abandoned when the mountains come. The acceleration from the overhead camera show that all men carry greater speed than anyone in the bunch
Is it just me, or does Cavy-boy seem a little arrogant and to ego-headed in a bad way? I mean, sure, the guy is good, but not Petacchi good, or Mario good for that matter.EVERY SINGLE ONE of his interviews he always says things like: "It was very easy for me to win", or "I made a bet with everyone with 10K to go that I would win because Im just that good" or "it was too easy to win, im just faster than everyone else". His over confidence almost rubs in the wrong way...
I havent kept up with cycling like I used to, but is it just me, or is this new kid on the block need to wind his neck in a little?
What is everyone making such a big deal out of him anyway? I mean, he is a long ways from Mario's record, and certainly I dont think he will get 9 stages in a Grand Tour like Alessandro Petacchi did.
Is it just the boost of American fans/coverage that when any rider does half decent they make the world out of it???
i think it's too early in his career to say that cav isn't as good as cipo or petacchi. i certainly think he has the potential to be.
ed rader
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He is cocky that is for sure, but I have to admit, he is damn fast and hard to beat when he has position. Like erader, I think it is too early in his career to say if he is the best or close to the top, but fun to watch. Would love to see him make the whole tour this year to see how he does after 3 weeks. Let him finish a few Tours and take home the Green Jersey several times, them we can discuss the legacy.
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I'll agree with Ed, the jury is still out on Cav's longevity. That said, I think you have to have a certain amount of egocentricity if you're doing what he is...trying to bang handlebars at 40 mph. The peloton has had its share of loudmouth sprinters with short fuses. Cav's just another version of Cipo, or Abdujaparov, or Steels, or....
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Cavendish is only 24 years old. He tied Petacchi for wins in their debut years (14).
It's his 3rd year as a pro and he already has 41 wins to his name. Give him another 7 years and he'll surpass 200. With any luck, it'll be 250+ career wins. I wouldn't bet against him having the most stage wins in the history of the Tour.
We'll just have to see if he loses some sprint with the amount of grand tours he will do. Happens to the best of them (Friere, Hushovd, Zabel, McEwen).
It's his 3rd year as a pro and he already has 41 wins to his name. Give him another 7 years and he'll surpass 200. With any luck, it'll be 250+ career wins. I wouldn't bet against him having the most stage wins in the history of the Tour.
We'll just have to see if he loses some sprint with the amount of grand tours he will do. Happens to the best of them (Friere, Hushovd, Zabel, McEwen).
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it's true he hasn't been around long enough to really start comparing him to the greats. and it is true that he has a matter-of-fact cockiness to him, but someone can correct me if i'm wrong, but i feel like lately (past year or so) he has won pretty much everything he has been in contention for. what i mean is, you hardly see any 2nd, 3rd, 4th place finishes. am i misinformed? i can think of a couple 2nd places in the giro last year, and that's it. if he's got the position, at least for now, it seems like no one can beat him.
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Cavendish is only 24 years old. He tied Petacchi for wins in their debut years (14).
It's his 3rd year as a pro and he already has 41 wins to his name. Give him another 7 years and he'll surpass 200. With any luck, it'll be 250+ career wins. I wouldn't bet against him having the most stage wins in the history of the Tour.........
It's his 3rd year as a pro and he already has 41 wins to his name. Give him another 7 years and he'll surpass 200. With any luck, it'll be 250+ career wins. I wouldn't bet against him having the most stage wins in the history of the Tour.........
I just wish he was arrogant, but the nice kind, you know, like the Cipo kind. And I agrre with someone else said, sprinters have to be all or nothing, personality too I suppose.
Well, I hope he gets 5 wins this Tour.
Any bets he will take the final sprint in Paris? Thats a loaded question I know, becuase that assumes he makes it over the mountains. But make that part and parcel of the bet!!
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Oh geez, I guess you have a point. Nice call.
I just wish he was arrogant, but the nice kind, you know, like the Cipo kind. And I agrre with someone else said, sprinters have to be all or nothing, personality too I suppose.
Well, I hope he gets 5 wins this Tour.
Any bets he will take the final sprint in Paris? Thats a loaded question I know, becuase that assumes he makes it over the mountains. But make that part and parcel of the bet!!
I just wish he was arrogant, but the nice kind, you know, like the Cipo kind. And I agrre with someone else said, sprinters have to be all or nothing, personality too I suppose.
Well, I hope he gets 5 wins this Tour.
Any bets he will take the final sprint in Paris? Thats a loaded question I know, becuase that assumes he makes it over the mountains. But make that part and parcel of the bet!!
the thing about cavendish is i really do think he tries to control his mouth....unlike loose cannons like armstrong and mc ewen and yes cipo in his younger years when he was considered by some to be a loudmouth prima donna.
and for the record i am a bigger fan of cipo than i am of cav but cipo sort of grew on me over the years (which is the complete opposite of how i view guys like lance today). i also suspect cav will become more likeable as he matures.
ed rader
Last edited by erader; 07-04-09 at 10:24 PM.
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I think Cav was pretty arrogant in his first year, and will maybe always have that tendency. However, every time I've seen him win in the last year, he makes sure to thank his team and acknowledge the competition. Seems like he's learning to be bit more, well, professional.
Besides, a little good natured swagger makes for good racing and good entertainment. Perfectly polite sprinters would be very dull.
Besides, a little good natured swagger makes for good racing and good entertainment. Perfectly polite sprinters would be very dull.
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Petacchi
2003 Giro - 6 wins
2003 Tour - 4 wins
2003 Vuelta - 5 wins
2004 Giro - 9 wins
2004 Vuelta - 4 wins
2005 Giro - 4 wins
2005 Vuelta - 5 wins
2007 Vuelta - 2 wins
pretty much locked out of the Giro/Tour 2006-2008
Cavendish
2008 Giro - 2 wins (Petacchi not there and Bennati won 3 stages)
2008 Tour - 4 wins (no Petacchi, no Boonen and McEwen had no helper)
He's winning a lot but he's not beating the top guys at their best.
2003 Giro - 6 wins
2003 Tour - 4 wins
2003 Vuelta - 5 wins
2004 Giro - 9 wins
2004 Vuelta - 4 wins
2005 Giro - 4 wins
2005 Vuelta - 5 wins
2007 Vuelta - 2 wins
pretty much locked out of the Giro/Tour 2006-2008
Cavendish
2008 Giro - 2 wins (Petacchi not there and Bennati won 3 stages)
2008 Tour - 4 wins (no Petacchi, no Boonen and McEwen had no helper)
He's winning a lot but he's not beating the top guys at their best.
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Also, during last year's Giro (if I remember correctly), Daniele Bennati had the chance to close the door on Cavendish in a sprint, but chose not to and allowed a head to head drag race. Cavendish beat him, but many people commended Bennati on his sense of fair play. Bennati later noted that if he had closed the door on Cavendish at full speed, and caused a serious accident, he wouldn't have been able to live with himself. A nice contrast to Abdoujaparov, eh?
Having said all that, I loved Mario Cipollini's over the top antics like showing up dressed like Julius Caesar at the start of a Tour stage. For the most part, he was obnoxious only if you took him seriously - kind of like pcad . I think Mario added a bit of flair and drama to the sport, in a good way. Pantani was the same.
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best of sprinters the last decade or so...
worst temper-steels. 2nd-mc ewen.
most flamboyant-cipollini-by a mile.
best lead-out train-petacchi. 2nd-cipollini.
best without a leadout teammate/team-mc ewen. 2nd-freire.
scariest-abdou. is there anyone else even close???
most competitive-zabel. 2nd-mc ewen.
most consistent-zabel.
most inconsistent-friere.
straight up fastest-cavendish. 2nd-cipollini/mc ewen (tie).
straight up slowest-boonen. 2nd-friere.
best tactical acumen-mc ewen. 2nd-zabel. 3rd-cipollini.
best classics sprinter-zabel. 2nd-bettini. 3rd-boonen. 4th-friere.
best in a chaotic sprint-mc ewen. 2nd-zabel.
best uphill finish sprinter(not counting valverde)-boonen. 2nd-zabel. 3rd-bettini.
best climber-zabel. 2nd-jalabert. 3rd-bettini. 4th-friere.
best "just win, baby" sprinter-mc ewen.
most disqualified-steels. 2nd-mc ewen. 3rd-bettini.
best descender-bettini.
best tt-jalabert. 2nd-hushovd.
most in need of a lead-out-petacchi.
unluckiest sprinter (most 2nd places)-zabel.
most overrated-petacchi. 2nd-friere. 3rd-boonen.
most underrated-hushovd. 2nd-friere. 3rd-jalabert.
most powerful-cipollini. 2nd-hushovd.
most explosive-cavendish. 2nd-mc ewen.
biggest whiner-mc ewen. 2nd-bettini. 3rd-steels.
most gentlemanly/best sportsman-zabel.
best overall sprinter-zabel.
welcome your comments...
worst temper-steels. 2nd-mc ewen.
most flamboyant-cipollini-by a mile.
best lead-out train-petacchi. 2nd-cipollini.
best without a leadout teammate/team-mc ewen. 2nd-freire.
scariest-abdou. is there anyone else even close???
most competitive-zabel. 2nd-mc ewen.
most consistent-zabel.
most inconsistent-friere.
straight up fastest-cavendish. 2nd-cipollini/mc ewen (tie).
straight up slowest-boonen. 2nd-friere.
best tactical acumen-mc ewen. 2nd-zabel. 3rd-cipollini.
best classics sprinter-zabel. 2nd-bettini. 3rd-boonen. 4th-friere.
best in a chaotic sprint-mc ewen. 2nd-zabel.
best uphill finish sprinter(not counting valverde)-boonen. 2nd-zabel. 3rd-bettini.
best climber-zabel. 2nd-jalabert. 3rd-bettini. 4th-friere.
best "just win, baby" sprinter-mc ewen.
most disqualified-steels. 2nd-mc ewen. 3rd-bettini.
best descender-bettini.
best tt-jalabert. 2nd-hushovd.
most in need of a lead-out-petacchi.
unluckiest sprinter (most 2nd places)-zabel.
most overrated-petacchi. 2nd-friere. 3rd-boonen.
most underrated-hushovd. 2nd-friere. 3rd-jalabert.
most powerful-cipollini. 2nd-hushovd.
most explosive-cavendish. 2nd-mc ewen.
biggest whiner-mc ewen. 2nd-bettini. 3rd-steels.
most gentlemanly/best sportsman-zabel.
best overall sprinter-zabel.
welcome your comments...
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Not if they know what's good for them
Although Theo Bos has raised his hand for that title as well (pardon the pun).
Although Theo Bos has raised his hand for that title as well (pardon the pun).
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Dishonorable Mention: Jeroen Blijlevens
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oh god-yeah!! theo bos should be awarded the annual abdou "achievement" award for dubious conduct
befitting a sprinting situation every though the season is half over!! that was either beautiful or horrible
depending on your viewpoint. as a long-time soccer/football defensive player, intimidation is half the
game. no blood, no foul. blood...ok, have a free kick. bos should have a clear lane for sprinting to the
win the next couple of years if he has a decent lead-out train. i mean who wants to ride next to him
near the finish?? could be the next sean kelly. maybe he's on to something...a couple dq's here, a fistful
of wins there.
befitting a sprinting situation every though the season is half over!! that was either beautiful or horrible
depending on your viewpoint. as a long-time soccer/football defensive player, intimidation is half the
game. no blood, no foul. blood...ok, have a free kick. bos should have a clear lane for sprinting to the
win the next couple of years if he has a decent lead-out train. i mean who wants to ride next to him
near the finish?? could be the next sean kelly. maybe he's on to something...a couple dq's here, a fistful
of wins there.
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Zabel retired last year right?
I remember watching him win stages in the 1996, 1997 and I especially remember him in the 1998 Tour.
Twelve years later, the guy is still getting 3rd in the green jersey competition. Thats just crazy how time flies.
So Cipo and Zabel are both equal on 12 stages total for the Tour. Zabel clocks in with 192 career race victories, while Cipo clocks in at 191. The main difference between the two is that Zabel won 6 Green jerseys, while good 'ol Mario won ZERO, LOL
Cavi might be set to get more career wins than those two.
I remember watching him win stages in the 1996, 1997 and I especially remember him in the 1998 Tour.
Twelve years later, the guy is still getting 3rd in the green jersey competition. Thats just crazy how time flies.
So Cipo and Zabel are both equal on 12 stages total for the Tour. Zabel clocks in with 192 career race victories, while Cipo clocks in at 191. The main difference between the two is that Zabel won 6 Green jerseys, while good 'ol Mario won ZERO, LOL
Cavi might be set to get more career wins than those two.
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Heh, sprinters with attitudes, what a surprise! I loved the Tom Steels / Frederic Moncasin incident...
Cipo warms up his arm too...
Some more rumble in the jungle...
Cipo warms up his arm too...
Some more rumble in the jungle...
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Petacchi
2003 Giro - 6 wins
2003 Tour - 4 wins
2003 Vuelta - 5 wins
2004 Giro - 9 wins
2004 Vuelta - 4 wins
2005 Giro - 4 wins
2005 Vuelta - 5 wins
2007 Vuelta - 2 wins
pretty much locked out of the Giro/Tour 2006-2008
Cavendish
2008 Giro - 2 wins (Petacchi not there and Bennati won 3 stages)
2008 Tour - 4 wins (no Petacchi, no Boonen and McEwen had no helper)
He's winning a lot but he's not beating the top guys at their best.
2003 Giro - 6 wins
2003 Tour - 4 wins
2003 Vuelta - 5 wins
2004 Giro - 9 wins
2004 Vuelta - 4 wins
2005 Giro - 4 wins
2005 Vuelta - 5 wins
2007 Vuelta - 2 wins
pretty much locked out of the Giro/Tour 2006-2008
Cavendish
2008 Giro - 2 wins (Petacchi not there and Bennati won 3 stages)
2008 Tour - 4 wins (no Petacchi, no Boonen and McEwen had no helper)
He's winning a lot but he's not beating the top guys at their best.
Pettachi went pro in 1996. What are Pettachi's achievements in his second year, in 1997? Cavendish went pro in 2007. What are Cavendish's achievements in his second year, in 2008?
Cavendish won those 6 stages in grand Tours at 23 years old (his second year as a pro). What did Pettachi win at 23 years old? That was 1997 (also his second year as a pro).
It took Petacchi 5 years before he got his first grand tour win.
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Please research Graeme Brown.
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Really? Why don't you do a fair comparison?
Pettachi went pro in 1996. What are Pettachi's achievements in his second year, in 1997? Cavendish went pro in 2007. What are Cavendish's achievements in his second year, in 2008?
Cavendish won those 6 stages in grand Tours at 23 years old (his second year as a pro). What did Pettachi win at 23 years old? That was 1997 (also his second year as a pro).
It took Petacchi 5 years before he got his first grand tour win.
Pettachi went pro in 1996. What are Pettachi's achievements in his second year, in 1997? Cavendish went pro in 2007. What are Cavendish's achievements in his second year, in 2008?
Cavendish won those 6 stages in grand Tours at 23 years old (his second year as a pro). What did Pettachi win at 23 years old? That was 1997 (also his second year as a pro).
It took Petacchi 5 years before he got his first grand tour win.
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#23
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I think Cav learned some restraint after he blew his stack in... 2006\T-Mobile ??, when he had a mechanical. Looked like a 3 year old having a hissy on the side of the road. I remember Phil just slamming him for that.
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Whats wrong with being a little cocky? He is grateful to his team, and always thanks them immediately after a stage win. I don't think he is disrespectful at all. He does make it look easy, so all he does it tell the truth
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The Interview they showed during today's stage Cav said it was easy because he had the best train. He listed his guys by name and said it was easy to win when you have a train like that. Pretty classy in my book.