OrionKhan

Any of you guys see this article: https://tour-de-france.velonews.com/a...oring-contador

Lance sure isn't taking the high road. That doesn't say much about his leadership.

erader

lance only cares about lance. no shock there. he had half of astana on his payroll soon after he joined the team.

ed rader

erader

contador is a class act. he could have whined and tweeted but he took the high road all through his tour ordeal.

he never once made a disparaging remark about lance, bruyneel or team astana or aired team business in the press or via tweeter.

contador had everyone including phil, paul and bobke against him yet he just smiled and kept his mouth shut.

but when it was time to ride he whupped arse, and the more arse he whupped the quieter they got.

now that's class for you!

ed rader

OrionKhan

This is something many refuse to acknowledge. For all of this talk about team, it was Lance, Levi, and JB running to the media and airing the Astana laundry out to the world. Those guys were trying to use the media to their favor and get Contador to go with their plan. They were upset when he attacked on arcalis, saying that they were surprised because it wasn't the plan. Well, he told Kloden about the attack. Kloden said he was okay and for him to go for it. Then Kloden got shot straight out the back. That is not AC's fault. But they're still pissed. But none of them say anything about Kloden's remarks.

Yet, Contador never said anything negative about the others throughout the whole tour.

Jose Perez

While I think that "smart" is a poor choice of words, "experienced" would be a bit better fit.

Regarding Alberto for the coming years, I expect that he will learn the painful lesson that every receiver who has left the New England Patriots and every running back that has left the Denver Broncos has learned. And that is, there is a lot to be said for being in a winning system. In sports, there are organizations that simply know how to win. It doesn't always come to who has the most talent or the most desire. More often than not it comes down to those organizations that know how and when to do the right things. In cycling you have guys like Johann Bruyneel and Bjarne Riis that know how to win. The same might be said of Bob Stapleton, but the jury is still out on him and GC riders in the grand tours. I expect that AC will find out the hard way in 2010 what its like not having the right guys around him.

erader

[QUOTE=Jose Perez;9358626]While I think that "smart" is a poor choice of words, "experienced" would be a bit better fit.

Regarding Alberto for the coming years, I expect that he will learn the painful lesson that every receiver who has left the New England Patriots and every running back that has left the Denver Broncos has learned. And that is, there is a lot to be said for being in a winning system. In sports, there are organizations that simply know how to win. It doesn't always come to who has the most talent or the most desire. More often than not it comes down to those organizations that know how and when to do the right things. In cycling you have guys like Johann Bruyneel and Bjarne Riis that know how to win. The same might be said of Bob Stapleton, but the jury is still out on him and GC riders in the grand tours. I expect that AC will find out the hard way in 2010 what its like not having the right guys around him.[/QUOTE]

you "expect". yeah that carries a lot of weight. it's like the guy who keeps saying "i'll bet he doesn't win 7 tours". when they make predictions waaay out in the future instead of dealing with the here and now you know their arguments are weaker than puppy piss.

.

ed rader

jarhead#42

I was totally shocked when Phil mentioned he lacked the intelligence to race and have some problems with the way this great cyclist was treated.I would assume when he watches the race on TV and see these comments he will be even more motivated for next years yellow jersey

Romans8:28

LOL........

AC is so stupid, he beat LA and JB at their own game (and they know it).

Brilliant from the beginning on AC's part, he played it the only way he could win.

Unfortunately this TDF has ruined the image of LA for me, to think I once actually thought he was a straight up guy. Shame on him big time

cyclocommuter

+1. Below is an excellent article from cyclingnews which gives an idea on the battles Contador had to wage in order to win this year's TdF... it appears the toughest ones are psychological battles, within his team:

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...w-in-context-2

Jose Perez

you're right in that it is purely conjecture on my part and might not be as strong as puppy piss, but then again I am not clairvoyant so I have no way of knowing. For all I know AC finds a DS somewhere that has simply been lacking someone of his talents to take him over the top and they go on a tear winning the next two or three tours. But history is littered with the corpses of many talented athletes that thought they could do it on their own, only to crash and burn...there's a term for it, it's called hubris.

erader

contador has won four GTs in a row. i'm pretty sure he won all three of the GTs at the youngest age ever so he can potentially surpass lance's record. i'm not saying he will. only that he can. and lance will never again win a GT.

contador was the victim of lance's hubris but he took the high road and didn't demonize and divide like LA has done all through his career, and that's really why so many people dislike armstrong.

ed rader

CycleFreakLS

Only because he is a talented rider that's been on great teams. You think he'd have 4 if he'd been riding for Euskatel? Silence Lotto? Rabobank? If he's not on a great team in the future, he may find it more difficult to recover time rather than having to defend.

erader

oh, here's another one.... telling us what may happen.

let me tell you what DID happen:

astana never would have won the tour THIS YEAR without contador.

or are you saying they could have?

ed rader

OrionKhan

Yes. If AC was not in the race at all, Andy Schleck would have won the Tour.

I actually heard Paul say today that AC may have cost Astana a serious chance at sweeping the podium. Like somehow Lance AND Kloden could have out ridden Andy Schleck. No amount of team planning and manipulating could made that happen.

OrionKhan

Yes, but there is more than one great team out there. JB isn't the only director that knows how to win. The idea that he wouldn't have won any without being on Astana is foolish. He has the riding ability to overcome quite a few team shortcomings.

dahoss2002

At least AC was "smart" enough not to let Astana screw him.

yes

That's a great article. It is surprising, but that is the first one that I have seen that is really written to show Contador's perspective. I was rooting for Lance going in to the race, and am glad that he did as well as he did. But, I lost some respect for him and Bruyneel for their antics on race strategy and interviews.
It was pretty clear to me that they were risking overall victory for Contador in an effort to improve Armstrong's chances. It also seems from his actions and now words, that Contador knew this.

erader

that's a really stupid comment from someone who knows better. phil, paul and bobke were all party to lance's attempt to demonize contador and divide the team.

you know if you keep repeating a lie the sheep will believe you.

ed rader

Jose Perez

I totally agree with your first statement and in regards to your second statement, had Astana been 1-2-3 going onto the Mont Ventoux the organizers would definitely have gotten the fireworks they hoped for. No way any team is going to allow another to OWN the podium like that without putting up one hell of a fight. Woulda been nice to see instead of the dud that was TdF 2009

reef58

Yes he would have won. If you watch the stages please point out something the team really did to help Contador.

JB is fine and dandy, but if you want to see his brilliance look at Disco's 2006 results. The bottom line is to win you need the best rider. The best rider doesn't need the best DS.

I am not a LA hater, but two things I have seen in the past 24 hours is petty. The first is not attending the team party, and the second was how he threw out the toast on the road today. Did you see how AC was pretty much alone at the back of the pack in today's stage?

Now it could be that AC is the one really causing the problems on the team. I think Kloden is the key. If Kloden goes to Radio Shack then it may be AC is the jerk.

Richard

OrionKhan

I really never got into the mix about Versus and them hyping up Lance. It was to be expected. Never paid any thought towards the crap that Bob Roll says. But they've allowed the idol worship to go on to new places. They're not even making rational commentary at times. I used to think that Phil and Paul, while obviously playing to the American audience, were usually fair. But they've finally gone over the edge with me with these comments. You can't have actually watched the Tour and rationally come to the conclusion that there is anybody else in the race deserving of the top two spots than AC and AS. To insinuate that bad tactics cost an Astana rider a shot to bump AS down two spots if flat bs.

OrionKhan

Astana would never have gotten to Ventoux sitting 1,2,3 as long as Andy Schleck was in the race riding the way he was. And especially after Levi went down. Outside of AS nobody in the race stayed with AS on every climb. He dropped all except for AC. Your statement is a speculation rooted fantasy. Not the reality of the actual racing. It would have been interesting, but not realistically possible.

CycleFreakLS

I didn't say he wouldn't have won any; I don't think he would have won four.

List the great teams. Saxo? I don't see him going to Saxo and Andy being his domestique. Garmin? That would be a great choice. Lampre? Milram? (where the hell was Linus Gerdemann?) Silence? Columbia? They're more of a spring stage behemoth. AG2R, Liquigas, FdJ?

There are a few teams that offer him the same opportunity to wind GTs. And a bunch of other teams, opportunity ... not so high.

OrionKhan

Well, the conversation wasn't about where he'll go. If he was on Saxo, he would win. Andy would have worked for him. Riis would have made sure of it. The only team where there would have been an issue of Contador being the number 1 rider is Astana. And that's because of Lance. No where else. AC could win with quite a few teams like Cervelo, Liquigas, Saxo to name a few. You gotta remember. Adding AC is an upgrade to any team. And just because a team is strong, eventually the roads go up mountains and the GC contenders get isolated. Then it comes down to the strongest rider. And the same goes for the individual time trial. Team can't help you there. How much help did Astana really give AC on any of the climbing stages? Not that they wouldn't have helped him. He really didn't need because he was the dominant rider. Nobody was able to shake him. A guy like that can win on a lot of teams.

oldbobcat

First, Johan Bruyneel is not the only DS capable of putting together a winning team. Second, I didn't hear any squawking from US fans in 1986 when Greg LeMond didn't play according to The Plan. Third, Contador is way beyond being Lance Armstrong's protege. He's not a kid. And fourth, I don't care how successful the organization is, if you can't stand working with them you owe it to yourself to get out.

Besides, the brilliance of Johan Bruyneel is estimable but overrated. As DS he has never won a Grand Tour without Lance Armstrong or Alberto Contador, and he won just one spring classic, with George Hincapie at Ghent-Wevelgem in 2001.

Contador will do just fine. He represented himself with intelligence, restraint, and honor in the post-Ventoux interview, in contrast to the insinuating sputters and twitters of Armstrong and Bruyneel. He maintained his composure and kept his own counsel to win by 4:11.