My (slightly tearful) reaction to the Armstrong news
#976
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,275
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1428 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times
in
353 Posts
2 reasons: 1) The very sophisticated doping program Armstrong had going limited competition from others with less resources.
2) Steroids, Transfusions, and EPO, made it a lot easier to get through a Tour without bad days. Riders are more consistent on PED's and with the benefit of boosted transfusions. Take those away, and the odds that Armstrong cracks one day, and loses one of those tours go up substantially.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#977
Velo Club La Grange
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
^Pretty much agree.
We'll never know, but I suspect he (Ulrich & Indurain) benifted more than the light-weight climbers of his era from PEDs.
We'll never know, but I suspect he (Ulrich & Indurain) benifted more than the light-weight climbers of his era from PEDs.
#978
out walking the earth
If I understood things correctly, the DOJ was investigating whether Lance used United States govt money (through USPS sponsorship) to fund illegal activities (use of illegal PEDs) and that doing so violated the contract with USPS. So they could only directly investigate the time-frame where USPS was the sponsor. They had to show that it was USPS money and not money from some other source that was used for any illegal activity they may have found. So DOJ may have had (and likely did in my opinion) plenty of info showing that Lance doped but if they couldn't follow the money back to USPS sponsorship they would not have had much of a case.
#979
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
6 Posts
According to what was published those investigating were told the case was being dropped. There wasn't given a choice. The implication was that it was politically influenced, and they felt they had a solid case. Velonews is trying to get the documentation on that released using the freedom of information act, but there are folks interested in who pulled the strings on getting it dropped suddenly.
#980
Banned.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 6,434
Bikes: '09 Felt F55, '84 Masi Cran Criterium, (2)'86 Schwinn Pelotons, '86 Look Equippe Hinault, '09 Globe Live 3 (dogtaxi), '94 Greg Lemond, '99 GT Pulse Kinesis
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Liked 265 Times
in
153 Posts
#981
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Putting aside the millions and millions of dollars that Lance Armstrong has paid in taxes, why do you think the US government should go after Armstrong to win even more money for the paxpayers ?
#982
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
6 Posts
There is a difference between "income taxes" and "damages" resulting from a civil infringement/contractual breach. If LA or his team (US Postal) violated the terms of their contract with the US Postal Service (a taxpayer owned entity), then the DOJ's civil division is obligated to recover some damages, provided it's a feasible case, and there is enough/substantial money to be recovered.
#983
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
There is a difference between "income taxes" and "damages" resulting from a civil infringement/contractual breach. If LA or his team (US Postal) violated the terms of their contract with the US Postal Service (a taxpayer owned entity), then the DOJ's civil division is obligated to recover some damages, provided it's a feasible case, and there is enough/substantial money to be recovered.
#984
Senior Member
Any business person worth their salt arranges their affairs so their tax liability is minimised (legally). There are many, many zillionaires in the world who pay almost no personal tax because their trusts and family companies are arranged that way.
Whether Armstrong and his legal and accounting teams have paid enough attention in that areas remains to be seen.
While USPS is not directly a government operation, the sponsorship money was used to support a person and team whose behaviour resulted in null and void results for a large number of races. USPS's reputation has been tarnished, and the fact that it loses large amounts of money each year is irrelevant.
The thing that might save him is the wording of the sponsorship contract, including sunset clauses, and the statute of limitations on taking action for recovery. Merlinextraligh may be able to shed light (again?) on that.
I am still wondering whether there could be some racketeering charges floating around in the background. But as with most gangsters who serve time, the likelihood is that Armstrong might be done over for some moderately low-level crime paper crime such as tax evasion.
#985
Velo Club La Grange
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
They weren't.
But lance is a dick. So, if you're a dick and dope people make baseless assucations.
However, if you're a swell guy and dope then you're "brave" for breaking the omerta
and people will ignore your transgressions and even reward you for them -- D. Millar
comes to mind.
But lance is a dick. So, if you're a dick and dope people make baseless assucations.
However, if you're a swell guy and dope then you're "brave" for breaking the omerta
and people will ignore your transgressions and even reward you for them -- D. Millar
comes to mind.
#986
Senior Member
They weren't.
But lance is a dick. So, if you're a dick and dope people make baseless assucations.
However, if you're a swell guy and dope then you're "brave" for breaking the omerta
and people will ignore your transgressions and even reward you for them -- D. Millar
comes to mind.
But lance is a dick. So, if you're a dick and dope people make baseless assucations.
However, if you're a swell guy and dope then you're "brave" for breaking the omerta
and people will ignore your transgressions and even reward you for them -- D. Millar
comes to mind.
What about the sprinters? Maybe they were all doped to the eyeballs with steroids to get those huge thighs and power outputs, and generous doses of EPO to get them through the mountains and to the finish in Paris. Maybe not.
As to the others, they admitted their doping, and have been penalised for that admission, including Millar.
Has Armstrong ever admitted doping, despite all the evidence to the contrary, including several positives at the time, and reportedly a large number resulting from retests since?
#987
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I have his tax returns here in my back pack.
Sounds to me like you have been drinking some Kool Aid about rich people dodging taxes.
Yes efforts are always made to lower a persons tax burder, but Lance had multiple years of reported salary of over $10 million per year. I believe some years as high as $30 million.
Just take a single one of those years and he would be in 36-39.5% of federal income tax bracket
Do I have proof ? I have common sense.
Lance Armstrong surely paid MILLIONS and MILLIONS in federal taxes.
Sounds to me like you have been drinking some Kool Aid about rich people dodging taxes.
Yes efforts are always made to lower a persons tax burder, but Lance had multiple years of reported salary of over $10 million per year. I believe some years as high as $30 million.
Just take a single one of those years and he would be in 36-39.5% of federal income tax bracket
Do I have proof ? I have common sense.
Lance Armstrong surely paid MILLIONS and MILLIONS in federal taxes.
#989
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NWNJ
Posts: 3,704
Bikes: Road bike is a Carbon Bianchi C2C & Grandis (1980's), Gary Fisher Mt Bike, Trek Tandem & Mongoose SS MTB circa 1992.
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 722 Post(s)
Liked 353 Times
in
226 Posts
The Oprah & Lance chat fest....
Ok people, why Oprah? Why not just come clean in a sit down with Greg Lemond as the interviewer? Or get the TDF team and have Phil L do the interview.
#991
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 335
Bikes: Actual 10-speed Olmo road, Bianchi BUSS, Kona A-Ha, Schwinn Moab 2 rain bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I have his tax returns here in my back pack.
Sounds to me like you have been drinking some Kool Aid about rich people dodging taxes.
Yes efforts are always made to lower a persons tax burder, but Lance had multiple years of reported salary of over $10 million per year. I believe some years as high as $30 million.
Just take a single one of those years and he would be in 36-39.5% of federal income tax bracket
Do I have proof ? I have common sense.
Lance Armstrong surely paid MILLIONS and MILLIONS in federal taxes.
Sounds to me like you have been drinking some Kool Aid about rich people dodging taxes.
Yes efforts are always made to lower a persons tax burder, but Lance had multiple years of reported salary of over $10 million per year. I believe some years as high as $30 million.
Just take a single one of those years and he would be in 36-39.5% of federal income tax bracket
Do I have proof ? I have common sense.
Lance Armstrong surely paid MILLIONS and MILLIONS in federal taxes.
#995
Voice of the Industry
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 12,572
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1188 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
8 Posts
One thing for sure...the whole thing is a PR stunt. Will be interesting to see what level of atonement Lance admits. Keep in mind that admission of doping 'may' have economic ramifications based upon previous lawsuits he won when he lied under oath. Depends on statute of limitations. The only reason why he is doing this is...he wants to still compete...and admission and contrition is his only way. It will likely cost him however to get back in the game. Lance like many champions, never makes a single move without careful consideration and no doubt he has had many lawyers help him with his roadmap.
#997
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 7,079
Bikes: Cervelo Prodigy
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 87 Times
in
67 Posts
His worse case scenario would be that he cannot compete in the triathlon and still face charges that puts him away: incarceration for a period of time. He has to think of the legacy he leaves to all his many children.
#998
Senior Member
Lance Armstrong is a Smuck. I have destroyed anything I have which compliments him as a pro cyclist. Yellow and Black have become my least favorite colors and I hope he becomes homeless living under a trussel bridge somewhere in Oregon.
He has taken (among others) the sport and totally destroyed it.
He has taken (among others) the sport and totally destroyed it.
#999
The Weird Beard
Join Date: May 2005
Location: COS
Posts: 8,554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Lance Armstrong is a Smuck. I have destroyed anything I have which compliments him as a pro cyclist. Yellow and Black have become my least favorite colors and I hope he becomes homeless living under a trussel bridge somewhere in Oregon.
He has taken (among others) the sport and totally destroyed it.
He has taken (among others) the sport and totally destroyed it.
My daughter gave me a coffee table book on Lance in 2009. I cannot destroy it for that reason, but it is a nice little time capsule.
#1000
Still can't climb
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Limey in Taiwan
Posts: 23,024
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
6 Posts
Lance Armstrong is a Smuck. I have destroyed anything I have which compliments him as a pro cyclist. Yellow and Black have become my least favorite colors and I hope he becomes homeless living under a trussel bridge somewhere in Oregon.
He has taken (among others) the sport and totally destroyed it.
He has taken (among others) the sport and totally destroyed it.
Wow. What did he do to you? There must be more to this emotional outburst.
__________________
coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer
No @coasting, you should stay 100% as you are right now, don't change a thing....quote Heathpack
coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer
No @coasting, you should stay 100% as you are right now, don't change a thing....quote Heathpack