Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Professional Cycling For the Fans
Reload this Page >

Landis drops EPO bomb on modern Pro Cycling. Lance is in the bullseye

Notices
Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...
View Poll Results: Are Landis' allegations true?
Landis' allegations are likely true
61.94%
Landis' allegations are likely false
23.51%
Don't know, too early to tell
14.55%
Voters: 536. You may not vote on this poll

Landis drops EPO bomb on modern Pro Cycling. Lance is in the bullseye

Old 05-20-10, 12:12 PM
  #326  
botto 
.
 
botto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 40,369
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by rogwilco View Post
Btw, it's really annoying that posts from other forums are constantly getting moved into this thread, can't you just close all other threads and tell the people to post here?
get over it.
botto is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:13 PM
  #327  
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 30,395

Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 914 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by electrik View Post
I guess Landis must be bankrupt because he is going to get sued for libel so hard.
Think about it. Do you really think Armstrong wants an extremely public trial to give Landis a national platform to broadcast these allegations for days on end?

And Armstrong would get to suffer through the testimony of this witness list: Ferrari, Emma O Reilly, Steve Swart, Mike Anderson, Betsy Andreu, Frankie Andreu, as well as Landis.

Then he'd get to hear again about the 1999 positive EPO test, and the steroid test.

It would not be a pretty 3 weeks for Armstrong.

Much easier to just dismiss the whole thing to the rantings of a bitter washed up has been with a reported drinking problem. Express pity for Landis and move on, case closed.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:14 PM
  #328  
jzsoup
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Cue the SNL Doping Olympics clip.

I never saw that. Got a link?
jzsoup is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:15 PM
  #329  
Kadowaki
Senior Member
 
Kadowaki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I've tussled with this because I met him shortly after and judged that he was telling the truth, but over time the evidence seemed to contradict his innocence. I subsequently decided they are all dirty, and I still think that.

However, if you read the interviews in some detail, it turns out that he admits to using testosterone, HCG and transfusions. However, at the time he was "caught" he was not using testosterone. He now concedes that there is no point in pursuing this further since he did use testosterone at some point.

This makes sense to me: He did illegal things, but at the time he was caught, he was "innocent" of the exact deed he was accused of so he would have reason to believe he could challenge the testing and beat the rap.

It's resolved in my mind for now.

Surely there are competitors who are cheating and I believe that anyone that can compete must be doing the same.
Kadowaki is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:17 PM
  #330  
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 30,395

Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 914 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by jzsoup View Post
I never saw that. Got a link?
can't acces youtube on this computer.

Google SNL all drug olympics.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:18 PM
  #331  
HardyWeinberg
GATC
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: south Puget Sound
Posts: 8,698
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 460 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times in 13 Posts
I appreciate Floyd's new strategy, and I figure he's probably telling the truth now. But after being that deep into denial for so long, it will take him a while to rise up to the believability level of Jose Canseco.
HardyWeinberg is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:23 PM
  #332  
therhodeo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tulsa OK
Posts: 2,076
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think there is some merit to him saying that yes he was doping but the positive they got was wrong. Basically saying yes you caught me but for the wrong thing only emphasizing how screwed up your system is.
therhodeo is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:25 PM
  #333  
Greg180
Realist
 
Greg180's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,083

Bikes: Roubaix, Tarmac, Fixed Gear

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If he was just trying to clear his conscious why not admit the truth, make restitution to those that believed in your lie and go enjoy your life. There is no upside here for Landis.
Greg180 is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:26 PM
  #334  
banerjek
Portland Fred
 
banerjek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,509

Bikes: Custom Winter, Challenge Seiran SL, Fuji Team Pro, Cattrike Road/Velokit, РOS hybrid

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 28 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
His book is probably going to become a collector's item now.
He can write another one now which will undoubtedly sell more copies than the first.
banerjek is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:27 PM
  #335  
DArthurBrown
Chasing the horizon.
 
DArthurBrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 495

Bikes: 2016 Felt F75, 2008 Mercier Corvus Steel, 2007 Trek 4300, 1985 Trek 620 (modernized)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Sad day for cycling any way you slice it boys.
Exactly. There is no scenario where this will end up good for anyone.

Unless there is some massive investigation that ends up condemning Landis as a liar and exonerating everyone else. I think that's unlikely.
DArthurBrown is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:27 PM
  #336  
Dubbayoo
Senior Member
 
Dubbayoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,681

Bikes: Pedal Force QS3

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by HardyWeinberg View Post
I appreciate Floyd's new strategy, and I figure he's probably telling the truth now. But after being that deep into denial for so long, it will take him a while to rise up to the believability level of Jose Canseco.
If the believability level of Canseco is a significant step up he's REALLY got a long road.
Dubbayoo is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:29 PM
  #337  
GP 
Senior Member
 
GP's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 7,629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jzsoup View Post
The best way to make it a level playing field is to just allow them all to dope.
I've thought that for years. No rules. Turn pro cycling into a freak show like bodybuilding.

The downside is the kids that want to be just like the pros.
GP is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:29 PM
  #338  
DXchulo
Upgrading my engine
 
DXchulo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Alamogordo
Posts: 6,208
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Now Lance crashed and abandoned the TOC.
DXchulo is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:31 PM
  #339  
Jed19
Senior Member
 
Jed19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Think about it. Do you really think Armstrong wants an extremely public trial to give Landis a national platform to broadcast these allegations for days on end?

And Armstrong would get to suffer through the testimony of this witness list: Ferrari, Emma O Reilly, Steve Swart, Mike Anderson, Betsy Andreu, Frankie Andreu, as well as Landis.

Then he'd get to hear again about the 1999 positive EPO test, and the steroid test.

It would not be a pretty 3 weeks for Armstrong.

Much easier to just dismiss the whole thing to the rantings of a bitter washed up has been with a reported drinking problem. Express pity for Landis and move on, case closed.
There'll be no libel or slander suit from Armstrong. See post #274.

And add Lance's ex-wife, Bruyneel, Sheryl Crow et al to the list of people who'll have to be deposed under oath, if there were to be a slander/libel lawsuit.

It's not gonna happen, period!
Jed19 is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:33 PM
  #340  
jzsoup
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
can't acces youtube on this computer.

Google SNL all drug olympics.

Just watched it. That's hilarious.


All I'm saying is that if everybody is doping (and I think they are) then just let 'em dope. If everyone is allowed to admit they're doping, then at least we as spectators know it's a fair race. I'm not suggesting that it's morally correct.

And if some guys legs explode on a climb, ala SNL style, then more people will watch, then a major network will pick up the coverage, and I won't have to upgrade my cable package during July just to watch the tour. Just kidding, but not really.
jzsoup is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:35 PM
  #341  
botto 
.
 
botto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 40,369
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by DXchulo View Post
Now Lance crashed and abandoned the TOC.
nice spoiler.
botto is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:35 PM
  #342  
jrobe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Can you believe any cyclist these days - even in your local races?

http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6...22-1-P,00.html
jrobe is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:35 PM
  #343  
patentcad
Peloton Shelter Dog
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,461

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1081 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by Tulex View Post
Why not? It's not always about the money. Being the one to break the home run record would be worth more than any money they would have gained. People also seem to forget that baseball knew about and privately supported what these guys were doing. Sosa and McGuired fricking saved baseball BECAUSE they were on roids.
For a number of obvious reasons. In MLB for these big stars it's really stupid. Take the long view. Like Derek Jeter. DJ is going to the Hall of Fame, and he'll be stinkin rich. McGuire, ARod, Bonds... who knows? They would still have been rich without doping, still in the Hall of Fame, now they'll be rich and potentially a disgrace to their sport.

For cyclists it's quite different in my view. Far more to gain and less to lose. The difference between being Lance who won 7 Tours or Lance who didn't and only made a few hundred K annually and retired in obscurity may not be that great. A few years of clandestine and clever doping at the highest level. Greater rewards for a similar crime. My point is those ball players would have been still been rich (arguably in the long term richer) without doping in the first place. Hard to fathom.
patentcad is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:36 PM
  #344  
Bacciagalupe
Professional Fuss-Budget
 
Bacciagalupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Landis lied to everyone, except for like 3 people, about his deteriorating hip. Including most of his teammates, who were relying on him being healthy. For years.

Then, he gets accused of doping, proclaims his innocence far and wide, says he never doped, pulls out all the stops in his defense, and mounts a massive PR assault on every organization remotely connected to the adverse finding. Now he's admitting that he spent years lying and fighting and soliciting donations for his defense.

It is possible he's (finally) telling the truth. I for one find it very likely that most pro cyclists, either briefly or long-term, indulged in PED's. Unfortunately he has clearly demonstrated that he is an accomplished liar. I don't see how he can be regarded as credible, let alone any indication that he is aware of how thoroughly he has damaged his own credibility.
Bacciagalupe is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:37 PM
  #345  
telebianchi
Senior Member
 
telebianchi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,279

Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 5.2, 2003 Fuji Cross, 2010 Giant Trance, 2006 K2 Mod 4.0, 2010 Schwinn Madison

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
If Landis could dope as much and as often as he is now saying he did but only get caught once, then anyone and everyone in pro cycling is suspect. For one, the dopers are ahead of the testers (not that that is saying anything new). Secondly, whether the specific people that Landis has named are involved may be contested I also doubt very much that he could cheat for as long as he says without somebody else in his teams' organization knowing about it.
telebianchi is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:38 PM
  #346  
Kadowaki
Senior Member
 
Kadowaki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by GP View Post
I've thought that for years. No rules. Turn pro cycling into a freak show like bodybuilding.

The downside is the kids that want to be just like the pros.
And pro wrestling. The problem is many of those guys die young.

I think a big deterent in the past has been Lance's legal team suing people who suddenly back down. I believe Floyd has nothing, literally and figuratively, to lose now. Every other doper got back on a pro team, he's on Bahati. I think the timing is related to his attempt to join Rock Racing and the announcement that they would not get to race in the big leagues in Europe.
Kadowaki is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:39 PM
  #347  
cjbruin
Body by Guinness
 
cjbruin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 3,326

Bikes: Specialized Allez Pro; Cervelo P2 SL; Tsunami (Converted to Fixed Gear)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by botto View Post
nice spoiler.
+1

Thanks for that.
__________________
Fredo, you're my older brother and I love you...but don't ever take sides, with anyone, against the family again...ever.
cjbruin is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:40 PM
  #348  
Tulex
Junk Mile Junkie
 
Tulex's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Webster, NY
Posts: 6,465
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
For a number of obvious reasons. In MLB for these big stars it's really stupid. Take the long view. Like Derek Jeter. DJ is going to the Hall of Fame, and he'll be stinkin rich. McGuire, ARod, Bonds... who knows? They would still have been rich without doping, still in the Hall of Fame, now they'll be rich and potentially a disgrace to their sport.

For cyclists it's quite different in my view. Far more to gain and less to lose. The difference between being Lance who won 7 Tours or Lance who didn't and only made a few hundred K annually and retired in obscurity may not be that great. A few years of clandestine and clever doping at the highest level. Greater rewards for a similar crime. My point is those ball players would have been still been rich (arguably in the long term richer) without doping in the first place. Hard to fathom.
Like I said, for some, fame is bigger than money. And, I imagine most of these people truely believe they can have both.
Tulex is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:41 PM
  #349  
fly:yes/land:no
abandoning
 
fly:yes/land:no's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by LUCAS View Post
There'll be no libel or slander suit from Armstrong. See post #274.

And add Lance's ex-wife, Bruyneel, Sheryl Crow et al to the list of people who'll have to be deposed under oath, if there were to be a slander/libel lawsuit.

It's not gonna happen, period!
oh. okay.
fly:yes/land:no is offline  
Old 05-20-10, 12:46 PM
  #350  
jzsoup
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by GP View Post
I've thought that for years. No rules. Turn pro cycling into a freak show like bodybuilding.

The downside is the kids that want to be just like the pros.

I agree with you about the kids. I'm doing my best to make sure my kids don't think sports figures are heros. So many fall from grace, in every sport.
jzsoup is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.