rogwilco

But it does exist, you're just ignoring it.

USAZorro

Fact - Your blood pressure elevates dangerously when you hear either the name "Armstrong", or "Lance". For your own good, take a few deep breaths, stare at your Greg Lemond poster until your pulse returns to normal, and go for a nice, long ride.

botto 

up to 77 lemmings stepping out of the closet.

botto 

how was your day, Fred?

botto 

the only allegation i made was that there's plenty of fools in this thread, and that fact is obvious to all. duh.

Allez3

Name's not Fred, but it was a fine day Floyd.

The more you post, the more you look to be the fool in this thread.

Fredmertz51

Lance reminds me of Marion Jones, SO indignant that he would even be considered anything but the "Great American Hero".

LittleSally

Interesting that Lance is leaving the US to go to France on Monday.

https://www.cyclingfans.com/node/819

X-LinkedRider

Good point, on the wording of the choices. I wouldn't worry about Botto. I love his bike/s but I have never seen a constructive comment come from his keyboard, so I stopped paying attention to him before I even got a road bike. The problem with elitists is that they already think they know everything. But if that were actually the case, there would be no reason to spend any time on the internet in the first place.

However, working in the Pharmaceutical world, I do think it is possible to keep something like that under wraps. If people only KNEW the stuff that is kept under wraps for FAR more important issues than this, I think it would be easy to see how something like this could easily be covered up. That being said, I don't buy it totally. No way that I buy even 50% of anything Landis is saying without proof. And to me, a journal is not proof unless it can be confirmed and validated. Anybody can take a book and start riding nonsense and nonfactual things one page after another, even clever enough to use different kinds of pens and such. Those people are called reporters, authors, and politicians. Floyd fits at least one of these with enough character to pull off any. That is not to say that the less than 50% that is true, is not terribly damaging to at least quite a few people int he world of cycling. Will it make the sport any better? Absolutely not.

OrionKhan

She didn't have any positive tests at the time either.

RockyMtnMerlin

Good point Phantoj. So I deleted them all.

lotek 

Question:
If lance and the whole USPS structure paid off the UCI to avoid a positive EPO test, wouldn't he have
to also pay off the IOC? and if this took place in Switzerland (2001) who would have had jurisdiction over the race?
Who would have done the testing?

That's one of the things about Floyd's accusations that doesn't hold together for me.

Marty

Nachoman

I'm pretty sure that there are forensic experts that can easily determine if the journal was faked by just using different kinds of pens.

Tom Pedale

At this point it exists in your mind..not in any tangible proof that would validate your assertions..

Lance has retained every victory by virtue of the fact that organizations in cycling responsible for drug testing have never invalidated one of his wins due to a positive test.

Tom Pedale

Likely as in past years, he's going to ride critical sections of the Tour de France (6 weeks away) to totally familiarize himself with those routes before the race starts. This has always been part of his thorough preparation.

rogwilco

You keep moving the goalposts. Whether or not Armstrong can be held legally accountable doesn't matter in regards to the question of whether he was/is doping.

I don't even blame him, but the idea that he won clean is pure fantasy.

Tom Pedale

Not a lot of substance in your reply...and when you say "that fact is obvious to all ", you really have no way of knowing that "all" of the posters on this thread agree with your opinion. Try being more precise and logical.

Tom Pedale

The reality or "fact" is that all of his victories stand because according to the sanctioning bodies that govern cycling competition, he won fairly, which also means to the best of their knowledge he was clean.

The fantasy is your belief because there is nothing you have to present as tangible proof that Lance cheated. This is also a fact.
So called witches were burned at the stake because enough people believed it was true. There was of course, nothing to support this belief either.

RockyMtnMerlin

Well, isn't this interesting. From cyclingnews et al "At least two of the people Floyd Landis accused of doping have already been contacted by anti-doping officials, the New York Times has reported. The newspaper says the two do not want their names published as they are still deciding whether to step forward. The unnamed agency has allegedly asked them to co-operate in its investigation in exchange for leniency."

How should we interpret that second sentence beginning with "The newspaper?"

rogwilco

Oh of course he deserves the wins, I wouldn't want to take that away from him, but there is no chance he was clean.

There are many reasons this analogy doesn't work but let's start with this:
- there has never been a single scientifically confirmed witch in the history of anything
- doping was ubiquitous in cycling during the time of Armstrong's greatest triumphs and he was the best of his generation

$ick3nin.vend3t

Lets hope Floyd has some photographic evidence to backup his testimony.

If he has the ability to hack into laboratory computers, I'm sure he will be a dab hand with photoshop.

botto 

there's not a lot of substance on BF, especially in this particular subforum. duh.

Yaniel

yea very interesting. it's not like a big race is starting over there in a few weeks or anything, why would he go there?

Dubbayoo

See post #615. France is pretty much the last place on Earth LA would go to get away from a doping scandal.

Yaniel

dammit, I missed your post, I was hoping for first crack at it. The tin foil hat crowd cracks me up.